Euthanasia at aged 44

With you there Iam. They need to be careful though. I think I just caught the end of something on the radio where a nurse (?) has been arrested for murdering an elderly man in a care home?

Nfk - we aren't in disagreement about the issue of one doctor making such a decision. If an individual's mental health deteriorates to the point they are a danger to themselves, or to others, it needs 2 doctors and a social worker to agree to take them into hospital against their will. So - yes, it would need 2 medics and another, probably an experienced social worker, or even a Guardian? But - it's my belief that some medics continue to quietly assist, by for example increasing morphine in discussion with the patient and family - I wouldn't want to get in the way of that by delaying decisions at a crucial point

I still don't think, Iam, that one doctor should take it himself to end someone's life - even if they request it. Legalistically it's too much responsibility for one person to take on. It opens up a minefield. For instance - Should a GP with little or no phychiatric training agree to end the life of someone with mental health problems?
I do agree with voluntary euthanasia - but it needs proper safeguards.

Nfk - I haven't read all the reports about this, but what I have read doesn't raise shadows of Dr Shipman for me. He murdered people, and wrote false death certificates. That he got away with it for so long has had implications for the medical profession, and there seems to be no doubt it'll be more difficult for any future serial killer doctors out there. I agree though, that the whole subject of assisted death needs to be discussed as sensitively as possible. We're mostly of an age that we'll have had experience of loved ones living in pain, or without an ability to communicate, feed themselves. have lost any independence or dignity. I wouldn't want to live like that. I wouldn't want my loved ones or GP prosecuted if they eased my way. I recognise that not everyone is in the position of having loving family members, who can be trusted with your life and death. Also, that some people would prefer to live until their life leaves them naturally. Then, there is religious belief. Such difficult issues to consider

I agree dumpling - there is something slightly suspect about someone who is prepared to end the lives of such young people for what (at least in one instance) sounds like a rather vague reason.

There have been several instances of nurses and doctors getting a bit of a kick out of the power trip of control over life and death. This is one of the side issues in the euthanasia debate and why the rules need to be clear.

Perhaps Belgium's Social Services are in a similar understaffed state as ours. It does seem that this man didn't get the support he needed throughout his life. And, if true, it's amazing that one doctor should have the authority - or self confidence, to end someone's life. Surely other people must have been involved? And the fact that he was able to end the lives of those twins on the possibility that they may become blind? Shadows of Dr Shipman?

Jen - there are clearly circumstances when an ending of a life in a gentle way after proper discussion with those they love and who love them has to be the right thing. As you say, it is not about not wanting to live with them, but not being able to live as they are. A terminal illness with unbearable pain is just such an instance; and it is right and proper that there should be ways of helping people with this. It is unbearably sad, but undoubtedly right, and those relatives who support their loved one in this decision are to be greatly commended. I admire your bravery and am sorry that euthanasia was not available and that the end was so slow.

Sudden unexpected suicides leave such pain behind - Should I have known this was going to happen? - was there something I could have done? etc.

The debate about euthanasia needs to continue until some satisfactory answer is achieved. It parteicularly disturbs me that some religious organisations allow their beliefs to prevent people being able to do what is right and proper, and that they skew the debate in this nation with an established church.

That's why assisted suicide is such an awful phrase, but I do not know what else to call it.
If it's called any form of suicide, those left behind are left with the idea that the person who died did not want to live with them anymore.
But that is not true. They only take the final step because they cannot live as they are.
Sorry, have to stop. Crying again.

I was not thinking of counselling as a route to dissuading this young man from his course of action in ending his life; but I did feel that it might have been appropriate for him to have had better counselling at the point where he was choosing to change his sex. It is a huge step to take and has had such dreadful consequences for him.

As a social worker, I had the difficult experience of visiting a lady who gave no hint that she wished to end her life, but as soon as I left she committed suicide. As you might guess, I spent a very long time agonising over our conversation and trying to isolate any clues that I might have missed, or anything that I had said that might have contributed to her decision.

Taking one's own life has dreadful consequences for those left behind, so a full discussion beforehand with those who might be affected and a proper drawing up of a statement of wishes is very important. Lives are ruined by the sudden and unexpected suicide of a loved one.

Jendurham - very thought provoking, sensitively written post (flowers)

ga

I came out of hospital with 200 paracetamol, 60 codeine and 60 Nefopam.
Better not get depressed, as I still have most of them.

Vampirequeen, in this country it would not be possible for that to happen unless at least two doctors agreed. In fact, it can only be for physical reasons, I think. At least that's what Ken's advance directive says.

I keep thinking I ought to sign one myself, as I know my GP would witness it, because of the ticking timebomb I have. However, it would mean discussing it with my sons, and they are still upset about their dad dying that way.

My brother-in-law and his wife had the right idea, of doing them together.
Nobody ever knows when they need them.

I have checks and balances in place to help to protect me from myself. I make sure I never stockpile meds or have good quality sharps to hand. However no matter how I try to protect myself there is always a chance I will find a way. If that should even happen I hope to God that someone intervenes rather than think it's none of their business.

According to the report this man was killed on the agreement of one doctor when other doctors had already turned him down. It worries me that it only took one doctor to do the deed. The others obviously thought that the man could have been helped in some way but once the deed is done there is no going back. Who knows what might have happened. Maybe they could have repaired his penis and altered his breasts. Perhaps he needed more counselling to come to terms with the changes that had been made. Of course it's possible that he would never cope and still seek to die but surely not on the agreement of just one doctor. It just strikes me as wrong that one person should wield such power of life or death.

Jen I agree, the article mentions only one doctor - Wim Distelmans - and goes on to describe him as 'a cancer doctor' who also ended the lives of two twins who were deaf and could not face the risk of going blind too.
To me, that is quite different from someone in intolerable physical pain for whom there is no prospect of recovery, and I have to say he seems quite sinister.
Anno yes, I knew a young man who took that view.

I live next to a bridge and a few times over the past 10 years when walking across it on my way home from work at around 21.00 I've seen people standing alone right next to the parapet, totally lost in thought and staring out. Could be just taking in the view of course or about to take a photograph but some people just have a very forlorn look.

If I saw someone about to climb over I would have to stop and say a few gentle words.

One bright sunny morning a couple of years ago a young man did climb over and was sitting on a ledge - it must have happened a few minutes before I was intending to walk over the bridge. The police stopped all traffic and pedestrians on the bridge and on both sides of the embankment, and river traffic - it was like a ghost town, totally silent.

He was persuaded down and I've always hoped that he was happy with this outcome.

If I finally plucked up the courage to jump off a bridge I might not be pleased if a stranger prevented me doing so.

I am reminded of the attitude the Samaritans took, at least when I was with them years ago.

We were instructed to talk to someone who was contemplating suicide, with the aim of disuading them from doing so, but if they went ahead during the phone call we were not to try to trace where they were and send an ambulance unless they gave their permission. We were to talk to them until they lost consciousness prior to death.

Riverwalk, we need to reflect that for some the ultimate 'cure' for a psychological illness could be to end it all.

ga I hope things are improving

I may be wrong, but I have faith that this young man felt he'd exhausted all therapeutic attempts to support him, whether they were physical or psychological. I used counselling as a blanket term - but assume this chap had psychiatric, psychological and psychotherapeutic input before any surgery was offered.
Talking someone down from a building, bridge etc is dealing with someone at the height of crisis. This man will have had more than a quick chat with some medic or other before this decision could have been made.

All very well saying it's his life, his body, free to do as he pleases, etc but if I passed someone who was about to jump off a bridge I don't think I'd just let them get on with it, without intervening somehow.

I wonder if he received proper psychotherapy, not counselling, to help him deal with the rejection by his mother.

I think there is a difference between the suffering of psychological and physical illness - if you have an inoperable tumour and all other treatment has failed then you know that's it, nothing more can be done, but a psychological illness has the potential for a cure.

GA (sad)

My husband had an advance directive, and died using it when he'd had enough.
In this country you have to have two appropriately qualified doctors agree that there will be no prospect of recovery. He still had to stop eating and drinking. He would probably have preferred euthanasia as it took 3 days to die after the GP agreed I need not feed him any more.
In the case above, there is no mention of any other medical person being involved. It also does not really give a timescale, which is worrying. Had he decided that he wanted euthanasia if things went wrong before the started the change?

Too close to home for me to comment right now.

I was surprised when I saw the headlines, that a doctor would help someone end their life in these circumstances. Having read more, I felt relieved that this man was helped to end a life he was finding unbearable. Suicide attempts sometimes fail, or leave the person in a worse situation than they were before. I hope it helped this man to feel cared for during the preparation for his death. Counselling isn't a cure all and not all problems can be solved by it. His situation seems very different than the ones where individuals are overwhelmed by depression/anxiety or other mental health problems at different points in life. His whole life seems to have been tough for this person.

Suicide attempts aren't always successful. Perhaps he wanted a guaranteed safe exit.