Cut out of their lives 3

It's 2 years today that we last saw our gc, then aged 8 months. Obviously we've been thinking about the situation even more as this day's approached. I've written a poem inspired by a toy we bought to be played with at our house; it was only ever played with twice.

There's an animal train in a room upstairs
Lovingly stored and hidden from view
It was bought for a small child to play with
It was bought to be played with by you

It's 2 years to the day since you touched it
Small hands all set to explore
You took in the lovely bright colours
And eagerly anticipated more

We smiled as small fingers pressed buttons
And each animal made its own sound
We laughed at your look of shear wonder
As it trundled along the ground

A grey elephant, a cheeky brown monkey
A giraffe with a neck so long
You bashed them together again and again
We were glad they'd been made so strong

All too soon the visit was over
There was no more time left to play
So the train was picked up and put to one side
To wait, for another great day

Days turned in to weeks and weeks in to months
The time came, to put it away
The joy it had given would not come again
You were not coming back to play

Now the train is surrounded by darkness
Just like us, it is hidden from view
You don't know who we are, if we pass you by
And there's nothing that we can do

So our love, like the train, is lovingly stored
In our hearts, it stays hidden from you
As we wait for the day when we'll know you again
And can give all of our love to you

A very sad day. Thank you Yogagirl

I might as well save my breath but I will have a go anyway- if an OP is asking for opinions or advice how is it wrong to give that opinion? Support doesn't just have to be unqualified agreement if you genuinely feel they are heading for disaster does it? Given a choice between a good relationship with our DC and for instance smoking, which would you choose? GN members have given some well balanced, compassionate and, dare I say it , sensible advice in the past (including msmac who was clearly desperate about what looked very like a case of real physical abuse) - thisxwas not judgmental but an entitlement to an opinion.
IMHO redhot and elegran and janeainsworth and others have not been unkind they have been sympathetic and chosen their words with care. Where a thread is headed up "am I being unreasonable" the question invites an answer and sometimes that answer is "yes, I am afraid you are".

Thinking of you today Smileless God Bless xxxx

Sorry ladies, forgot my hazard warning system; should have started my post with a.

Listening to others' points of view is important in resolving as issue janeainsworth but when the OP starstellacame back on this thread and explained that there were pre existing issues, and this wasn't just about smoking some of the respondents chose to focus only on smoking.

As I posted yesterday, her s and his partner didn't want her taking the gifts for the new baby to their house if she smelt of cigarette smoke, but were happy to go to her house where no doubt she smokes inside, and collect the gifts themselves.

There were some supportive and caring responses but there were also some unpleasant ones. As if often the case, it isn't necessarily what people say that causes offence, it is the way they say it.

It saddens me that she hasn't been back and judging by her last post it's because of some of the responses she received.

A few weeks ago there was another new poster on here, msmac and where as she received some support some of the responses were judge mental and she hasn't been back on here either.

Posters on this thread have, and not for the first time, been accused of not wanting to hear any thing that doesn't fully correspond with their view and that simply isn't true or fair.

I came on to cut out of their lives 2 almost a year ago. I would have struggled to cope without the care and support I've received from regular posters and others who come on now and again.

We've had two new posters in the last few weeks who were looking for understanding, support and comfort. I don't think for one moment they simply wanted to have their opinions and feelings validated without question, but I can't help but think we've let them down and that's why we haven't and probably never will hear from them again.

As Celebgran has said, this thread is about support, not some argument about smoking.

Celebgran Someone introduced the question of smoking and asked for advice about whether she should 'disown' her son, if I remember correctly.

That seems rather drastic to me, and I would have thought that taking the time to gently trying to explain why someone might not want their newborn child exposed to cigarette fumes, which is what nellie and others have been doing, is actually being supportive.

Surely listening to others' points of view is important in resolving an issue?

Sorry smileless meant Got appt for scan 13 October will let you know how goes is still pain literally doctor referred me for more physio.

What date you off to Florida ?

Yogagirl look out we coming southend wed to see show coach from matinee club,

Got Rosie back always hate smell of her, but full beans. Just used lot baby's wipes, lol lff do couple clients now.

Thanks Celeb, I think you're priceless too. Sorry you both got a tummy bug while you were away but it sounds like you managed to make the most of your time away.

Well it's good news that your scan has come back, so let's hope you'll now be able to get your foot sorted out. I expect Rosie will be thrilled to have her 'mum' back. Thanks for the big hugs.

BIG hugs for you and Yogagirl

Smileless so sorry just read your other post your mum and brother seem little unkind is fun to exchange toke. Gifts on Xmas day.

I do remember mothers day! Was awful for you.

So pleased you have friends to go to, not thought about it too much yet!
If or son invites us reckon will go they came to us last year and we have own guest room this year! Worried that sons partner work coming to end
Maternity leave and she has enormous debts!

Oh dear always some worry.

Definitely going get Rosie Ow have hospital to ring ref orthotic appt so getting some help with foot.

smileless it is so painful these dates, big hugs xx

Oh smileless you are priceless! That is exactly what I meant.

Lighten up Nellie moser read what smileless has said and take notice! You should have read my comment more closely if you wanted to respond.

This thread is about support not some argument about smoking !

Please try to remember that if you wish to contribute we like uplifting comments most of us have enough grief.

Thank you. Thanks again smileless it made me chuckle.

Glad be home your turn soon smileless Florida sounds wonderful.

Algarve okay we both got tum big shame as only there week, hotel were very good, sending us up tray tea etc. Decided week is not long enough to warrant all airport hassle packing etc. We only stayed by pool had get taxi back from trip due to husband ill! He still not 100%. Did get taxi to. NExt beach was lovley then we both became ill next day. Never mind we enjoyed some of it, Thomson gold good no kids, got shows but not good as we remember we go out to 2 social clubs so are fussy little things!

Going get Rosie next!
Oh got my scan through for foot, which is still damn Nuiscance!
Yogagirl hope you feeling bit brighter now!

Hello Celeb so glad you're back, I've really missed you. Now, after a good nights sleep you'll have to let us all know where you've been and what you've been up to.

It's weird isn't it I smoke and I don't like the smell of stale tobacco either. Well done for kicking the habit I've implemented my hazard warning system and began this post with aso you'll know this one isn't.

I've been thinking about the OP starstella, hoping that the new baby has arrived safely and things have settled down. I would have thought Nelliemoser that as the poster's son and partner were happy enough to go round to her house, collect the gifts for their new baby and take them home with them, that they didn't reek of smoke. We don't want you to come to our house smelling of smoke with the gifts you've bought, but we'll come to your house, where you smoke and collect the gifts ourselves.

Celebgran I am an ex smoker.
Can you explain why a polite request would be an insult.

I cannot see why anyone should feel insulted if asked not to smoke when visiting a family with small children.
Would they also feel insulted if asked not to take their dog because the children are allergic to dog hair?

There has been plenty of publicity in recent years about the dangers of smoking in and around young children and about how long it takes for the chemicals in the breath of a smoker to disappear after smoking a cigarette.

If I did smoke I would feel I was being very insulting to my family if I had become so thoughtless about my habit that I disregarded their request to consider their child's health or take presents reeking of smoke to their house.
I assume you would never dream of having a very smelly bonfire in your garden when your neighbours wanted to sit outside.

To non smokers the smell of stale tobacco is really dreadful. Perhaps many smokers still do not realise how bad the smell of stale tobacco on other people is.
It cannot reasonably be considered as "insulting" just to ask someone to respect for a hosts home.

Amhome Smileless!! Gosh dont like tone of one of two posts on here, such a shame and we generally try to be as supportive as possible to each other

Forgive me as have just arrived home from airport so not at my best!!

I would be very insulted as en ex smoker if asked not to deliver gifts smelling of smoke!! Agree with Smileless what is difference if they collected them!

People really have to try and imagine how hard it is for others before if ever rushing in to judge,

However I will never understand to my dying day why my daughter cut her entire family out, apart from s i law disliking us,however that is way too extreme. If only it was just a definite think like smoking. I must add gave up after numerous attempts about 20 years ago never regrettedit despite weight gain, and always always hated the smell of smoke even when a heavy smoker, so can sympathise.

How delicate a situation.

Happy weekend one and all. Hope you're all OK.

What are you up to Celebgranand Yogagirl? Miss you xx

Called in to see my mum and bro on my way back from the gym today. House is in a mess, mum looked unkempt as did my bro. It's very upsetting as she used to be so proud of her home and her personal appearance.

She asked when we were off to Florida and I told her a week on Thursday. My bro said not to bring back any gifts for Christmas as they weren't bothering and didn't want anything any way. It made meand a little. I said it's nice to have a pressie to open on Christmas day and I couldn't help thinking that they may not want any thing but I'd like to have a gift from my mum and bro, just a token gesture. Then I said to myself 'don't be silly; you're in your 50's, not 5 years old'.

I then reminded them that as we'd had friends over for Christmas day last year (they came too and had a lovely time, especially my bro) that our friends were reciprocating and having us to their house this year. They said they wouldn't be going and wouldn't come to ours on Boxing day as our friends would be there as well.

It was such a blessing to have a house full last Christmas what with our estrangement from our s and gc and our other s being so far away in Aus. I was beginning to look forward to this year which isn't easy in the knowledge that we'll be missing our gc's 3rd Christmas, just as we've missed the other 2.

I love my mum and bro dearly and they have so many problems between them that I am sadly unable to help. I've always done my best but the emotional chasm between us seems to get bigger no matter how hard I try. Some of you will no doubt remember what happened on Mother's day.

Family is, and has always been important to me and the loss of our s and gc has made them even more precious and yet, the more I need and desire them, the further away they seem to get.

I suppose I just need to accept that things have changed and as long as they're OK with the choices they've made, just get on with my own life, see them when I can and be glad that they have one another.

Just feeling sorry for my self I'm afraid. The second anniversary is only a week away and I feel like an emotional volcano getting ready to explode. I'll try not depress you all with in the days between now and the 30th even though I know you'll understand and wont mind too much.

As there's no hazard warning sign available, between now and the 30th if I'm going to be a moaning and miserable so and so, the first thing I'll do is put on aface. The least I can do for my friends on here is to fore warn them and give them the opportunity to skip my doom and gloom and move on to the next post, or wait until I have aface to share, which I know I will again soon, may take a few days, but I'll get there.

for you all.

At the risk of being dismissed as one of those who cannot possibly understand what you are all going through, and therefore "insensitive" and "arrogant" no matter how much I sympathise with you, I would just like to reinforce the point that smoking and babies is a huge no no.

Endangering a Gc's health is inconceivable, and not smoking is surely a small price to pay to hang on to a precious relationship?

There are clearly more issues for the OP, but this is one that can actually be solved. So do it.

Oh it's OK RedheadedMommy and very sweet of you to apologise but really there's no need. for you.

Oh Smileless!
I'm so sorry.
It was only after i posted i realised it was on this thread, like you ladies need reminding anymore of the things you're missing. Im so sorry.
I was just trying to make OP see how much she will be missing out on if she chooses to not go to their house because it means she cannot have a cigerette..

Morning ladies. Hope you're all having a good weekend.

You said you were going away again Celebgran so I'm wondering as we've not heard from you recently if you're away at the moment. If so, hope you and your DH are having a good time and that theis shinning down on you.

What have you been up to Yogagirl. Next week will be week 12 of my 12 week program at the gymand it's a good job as I've been struggling with a shoulder injury all week. Still a week on Thursday we'll be off to Florida so I'm looking forward toand no gym.

Any news about the imminent arrival starstella? I've been giving your dilemma a great deal of thought and do have a suggestion. It has already been suggested that you have a period of time between having a cigarette and going to your son's and his girl friend's house and that you change in to freshly laundered clothes before your visit.

If this is something you're considering, my suggestion is that you contact them and tell them of your intentions. It is of course understandable that they are thinking of the health and welfare of their new born, and if the current tension is purely about your smoking, they should appreciate and welcome any possible solutions you put forward.

Even if they don't feel this will be enough, it should open the lines of communication and enable you to have a mature and reasonable discussion. I hope that between you a resolution can be found; if smoking is the only issue here, I'm sure you'll be able to sort things outfor you.

Oh RedheadedMommy, just read your list. I've missed out on so much already and there's still so much more missing out to come.

Elegran

Everything she has just wrote. Just everything. If you choose to ignore everything that has been written then please take in what she has said.

Ive just re read your post and the assumption he has more to loose than you is shocking.
Its like, 'i have 4 sons..if i dont talk to him, i'll have another 3 and he'll have no one'

My DH is an only child, he hasn't seen his mum in over a year. He hasn't got a dad. He has a wife, 2 beautiful girls, his in laws and extended family.

She has lost a son, Grandchildren..Christmas, Birthdays, shopping trips, coffee mornings, baby sitting, 1st birthdays and 1st Christmas, mothers day, homemade cards, DD starting school, our wedding, days at the park, family photos, knowing anything about our DDs, pushing the pram, being called nan...the list goes on.

DH lost a selfish, self centred, mean woman.

He hasn't lost anything. She lost out on a really good thing and she'll never get it back.

Don't be her. Please PLEASE accept all the advice you have been given.

At the top of the thread is the topic heading "Am I Being Unreasonable". If you ask a direct question like that, you will get a direct answer. If you get so angry about the direct answers you have been given, I suspect you also get angry pretty fast at your son. He will be used to that by now, so it could well be that this difference of opinion between you has died down by now and you are better terms, with no more talk of making a complete break of it. I do hope so.

The OP needs to separate the two things that are annoying her, the smoking ban and the personality clash with her daughter-in-law.

First the smoking alone -
Not smoking anywhere near a newborn baby is a perfectly reasonable request, and coming in from smoking in the garden is not the answer. The smoke will linger in her hair and clothes, whether she can detect it or not (when smokers stop, one of the things they noticemost is how much more they can smell than they did when their noses and lungs were overwhelmed with cigarette smoke) If someone sits beside me on a bus, I can tell whether they have been smoking, and they don't need to smoke 40 a day or be wearing dirty clothes.

Even if she were on marvellous terms with her son and his partner, they would still not want her to risk her grandchild's health, and I am surprised that she would consider it. A short time with a drag is surely possible, she can light up as soon as she leaves. If she can't spend a reasonable time in someone else's home without a fix, she should be as worried about her dependancy and addiction problems as she is about being offended by this young woman.

Then relationship problems -
You say that for all four of your boys the trouble started when the females appeared. You just call them females, you don't grace them with any other personality, they are just the females who stole your sons. All of us with sons have watched them grow from boys to men and choose their partners. They don't always choose the girls we would have chosen - but why should they? Did your mother-in-law choose you for HER son, or did he choose you himself?

Do you want to get rid of these "females" and have your sons all to yourself again? It aint going to happen! You don't have little boys any more, you have men. Men have wives and partners as well as mothers. Men have their own homes, and they invite into them the people they want to have there. They and their partners make the home, you are a guest in it, as they are guests in your house. They make their own lives, and you are a guest in their lives. Be a gracious guest, and turn them into gracious hosts.

I think that when has summed up the situation very well and hope that this bears fruit.

Smileless - indeed those of us fortunate enough not to have faced this sad situation cannot know the full extent of your and others pain - but we can imagine how it is; and this is why some of us on here are so keen to avoid the OP suffering the same fate.

It is on one level about cigarettes - this is the issue upon which the the situation has reached a head.

There is no need for the OP to be insulted by her son and DIL's request - to many of us it seems entirely reasonable, and it is this perspective that we wish to convey, so that the OP can see it from another angle and realise that she might reconsider her feeling of being insulted, upon which the whole argument hinges.

I do not think that those of us here who are trying to put across that view are insensitive. Sometimes it does not help to be sympathetic and reinforce someone's views, if they are what is creating the danger of a family rift that might be avoided.

StarStella I hope you will meet your new grandchild and everything will fall into a clearer perspective, as it has for the parents. Quit smoking with help from your GP, stick patches on and make that gesture that shows you can be flexible in the best interests of your family. This isn't something to argue about - demonstrate that you can put your family above cigarettes. Please. I've had a (fortunately now over) spell of being denied contact - don't test it to see if it hurts. Don't try to win - everyone loses in such situations as this. Let go of your end of this tussle before it hits you in the face.