Christian Family face possible legal action

And yet you understand why they cant ice the cake.

Eh?

You want the shop to go out of business?

Hello, soon. Have a nice day.

I think that the cake shop will have to go out of business.

Well said.

I don't think it is complex at all. If you run a business which must conform to the law--then you conform to the law. If you do not want to run a business that has to conform to certain laws then don't run the business. The owners of the bakery has now decided to stop making cakes other than birthday cakes or childrens cakes so that they do not have to make the same decision again. I do wonder tho, what they will do if asked to make a cake saying "to Edward, love from your husband George".
The rights of a person who wishes to discriminate because of their chosen religious world view should not be held to be above the law. And they are not. Thank goodness

Such a complex issue this one. This cake was for an LGBT event at my local town hall, in Bangor. 100 yards from that town hall is a well known bakery specialising in making customised cakes. However, the order was placed in Asher's bakery at the opposite side of Belfast, at least 15 to 20 miles away. Make of that what you will. After the refusal by Ashers to ice the cake (they had no objection to baking the cake itself) with the specific message, guess where the order was finally placed and fulfilled? Yes....the bakery near the town hall!

I am not saying this was a set up but struck me as a bit odd. Did The owners of the bakery discriminate against the customer as they did not know their sexuality? Indeed, they took the order for the cake in the first instance. It was the message they had a problem with, advocating gay marriage, rather than homosexuality per se.

Thorny one, around who has rights, I agree. I am still unsure of where I stand on the prosecution but it seems to have been regarded by the judge as a test case.

Otherwise Hilda Ogden would have been arrested years ago!

I should hope so, anyway!

Yes, so would I.

I should think it's illegal for someone to discriminate against you for wearing a headscarf full-stop!

It's complicated.

Quite right! I don't know what I was thinking! 'Religion' means every religion including atheism! It covers you if you: belong to an organised religion such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam
have a profound belief which affects your way of life or view of the world. This includes religious and philosophical beliefs, or a lack of belief, such as Atheism
take part in collective worship
belong to a smaller religion or sect, such as Scientology or Rastafarianism
have no religion, for example, if you are an atheist.
The law against discrimination because of religion or belief does not cover purely political beliefs unless they are also philosophical beliefs.

You are protected if someone discriminates against you because they think you are a certain religion, when you are not. For example, it's against the law for someone to discriminate against you for wearing a headscarf because they think you are a Muslim, even if you are not actually Muslim.

Lily - what are you talking about? Of course it's illegal to discriminate on the grounds of religion! Where on earth did you get that idea from?

I suspect it depends on the interpretation of "on the basis of their religion". I hope so anyway, rather than it being a stark and plain fact.

I'm surprised by your first sentence, lily. Quite shocked in fact. Are you sure it isn't illegal to discriminate against Christians on the basis of their religion in this country?

It isn't illegal to discriminate against Christians on the basis of their religion so trying to draw an analogy of that kind won't work. I'm not sure that refusing to decorate a cake in a specific way as opposed to making a cake amounts to refusing a service. I'm sure the customers had taken legal advice on it before making the request, though.

Good luck with converting 'er soon.

10.04am post true
10.19 post not. Jesus was about both.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the knowledge of Christianity (well, of stories about Christ, which is not the same thing) that I do have suggests to me that Jesus would fall into the latter category rather than the first.

Hmm...

I'm coming to the conclusion that the problem here is that on the one hand there are people who think certain kinds of belief trump everything else and on the other hand there are people who think that how people behave towards each other, regardless of beliefs and 'belief systems', is what is most important in human interactions.

Is it going against their belief system? If it is, then no. If it isnt, then yes. I suspect that the answer is no.

Would it be intolerance if a baker who might be regarded by some as a "militant atheist" refused to do a similar order for a Christian because they disapproved of the wording? I think it would. You?

I think that what is written on a cake is pretty low on God's priorities.

So be it, but if you go against the law, you will, usually, still be answerable to the law. I honestly think this is a storm in a teacup, or possibly a cup cake. Surely god, whichever one you believe in, couldn't give a toss about what is written in the icing. Also, I reckon a pretty lousy sort of god that keeps his/her followers in fear.