Christian Family face possible legal action

The thing is, it isnt intolerance. In this case, it wasnt random unfairness either. It is obeying God. It is not personal to whoever, even though I can see that it appears like that.

The law can indeed do what it does. But many people of many faiths can choose to go against the law.

A lot of people of a lot of faiths are far more in fear of God or whoever, than they are of man and laws.

I don't agree, soon. I think you can separate owners' behaviour from their business. The law can decide what is acceptable behaviour towards others and apply the same rules to all public businesses. It has to to prevent random unfairness and to control intolerance. That is what happened in this story.

I agree, ana. And the kid gloves problem is caused by the threat of violence if people outside the religion don't toe the line. It's worse than ridiculous.

I think what some religious people don't get is that their beliefs and resultant choices are not more precious than other people's beliefs and choices and that they are not, therefore, deserving of special treatment. If you like, you could look at the law in this kind of case as being at the common denominator of tolerance. Equality is like that. There will always be things that appear unfair to some people but if they are fair for the vast majority then those others just have to put up with it.

Someone asked earlier up thread who makes the laws. In a democracy we all do. Society has decided that it is better to tolerate other people's relationship choices than to be intolerant of them. The bakers' problem is that they are intolerant.

If you think of gransnet, different moderators do different things. Gransnet is not seperate from its' employees, no matter how hard it tries to level things out, in terms of moderation.

You can try to legally I suppose, but an owner can still choose different options.

But you cannot seperate a bakery from the bakers. Or any other business form its owners.

Bakery is a business - it doesn't have a religion. To talk of a Muslim bakery or a Christian bakery is nonsense.

That is why, no matter what insults I get on gransnet, it is nothing compared to that I may have to face.

It is God that is getting ruled out. And christians just cant do that. No matter how hard everyone else tries to get them too.

All these 'what if someone did this' and someone else did this' are making my brain seize up.

So irrelevant.

again

Yes - but why is Christianity fair game while other religions have to be treated with kid gloves? Ridiculous!

Perhaps no-one would have that courage, ana, but that's a sad reflection of intolerance and what it does to people.

Actually, I ironed out the colloquialism but forgot to iron out the word, IYSWIM.

Elegran, I think we've strayed rather too far into 'sensibilities offending' territory rather than actual law-breaking, which is what this case was actually about.

I'm still wondering whether anyone would have the courage to ask a Muslim bakery to produce the cake with the slogan.

That's what I think too, elegran. The message on the cake is not the issue. The bakers' disapproval of homosexuality is the issue. The judge has said, if you'll excuse the colloquialism that follows: Keep your disapproval to yourselves and treat all your customers equally. Or, if you can't do that, don't run a public business where people expect to be treated equally.

It's really very simple.

Game, soon? It's not a bloody game.

What if someone who couldn't read or write asked a professional letter-writer to write to someone, saying something that the letter-writer didn't agree with? Should he refuse, and/or alter the letter to express his own views?

There was a story about an illiterate woman who made the friend who was reading out a love letter to her cover her ears so that she would not hear the private things she was reading out. Should someone who is just the go-between ignore the message they are taking or the things they ice on the cake?

thatbags. I know that you like debates like this Not playing Read the thread, or read the bible.

Suppose it's like condoning it.

In what way are Christian bakers being unchristian by writing something for someone else (on a cake, because that's their business) that they would not write for themselves?

It's an interesting point though.What if a Muslim couple wanted a cake that said in icing' there is no God but Allah' and it was a very Christian or Jewish bakery?Or a Christian couple wanted a cake for a celebration for a pork butcher, so the cake had a little pig holding a string of sausages on the top, and the bakery was Jewish ? or a Christian couple wanted a cake in the shape of a cross with a Christian message in icing?These are all silly things I just thought up, but do wonder what the legal outcome may be?

Of course it hasn't happened, no one would dare to put it to the test.

Christianity is such an easy target, isn't it?

Ana Since it hasn't happened, we can't know that, but they certainly should be, as the same legal point applies.

I agree JessM. Forgetting the love part is a big issue too.

(in response to jess's post)

Oh come on! We can't extend this that far! It's completely different anyway.