I just dont know what to do!

Hello louisamay - what a shame that this is all happening at a time of a newborn.

Firstly, I can understand you considering recording the outbursts (just a form of self-protection) - especially if you are being wrongly accused of something - but even if you played the recording to your son, he won't thank you for it and could well end up resenting you for doing that. It does seem that he's aware of what is happening.

I don't get along at all with my DiL either and, having respect for my nerves, I stay away from her. I can understand you have sympathy with your son but he chose her, he knows her better than you do so it's up to him and her parents to figure out which is the best way of handling things. I certainly wouldn't go to the house again unless your son is there. Maybe they could both visit you instead? It seems that the problem is in their house so maybe not meeting up there would be a sensible place to start - talk it over with your son and see how he feels about it.

I would record the 'conversations' if only for my own sanity. I have been where you are, Louisa, but it wasn't with a Dil, but with my own DD.
This was because of her depression. There isn't an answer. Sorry to say that through experience I know that you just have to put the hard hat on, keep your mouth shut, and hang on in there. It does end.

I've just read the bit about making a recording and cannot believe you might even consider such a thing. Bin it! Now!

Unless of course you want to sour relations for good and all.

It is not a desperate measure, it smacks of vindictiveness and is totally out of order in this situation. To be honest, I do think that if you go down this route you will only have yourself to blame if you lose contact with your son and GC. Sorry to be so blunt, but I am appalled by the idea - and am beginning to feel a bit sorry for this poor lass!

louisamay Please can I send you ((hugs)) for what you are going through but please do not go down the route of recording anything if DIL happened to find out about it you may loose a relationship which is very dear to you and she would be very unforgiving indeed.
Your DIL sounds as though she is trying to please everyone at the same time poor love and be a new wife and mother all thrown in together so is bound to feel stressful.
I would put the doorkey scenario on the back boiler as I think it is not important at all to fall out over,maybe your DIL had just got the baby to sleep when you arrived and she was fraught if she is not sleeping too well with the baby,and yes DIL have to be treated with care as they do gravitate to their mums and so they should,have you thought of maybe leaving little one with your son/grandpa and you and DIL and her mum go out for a day it may be just what she needs.

I really think that this young lady is feeling insecure - and her actions are motivated by fear. I do not think that women feel great just after they have had a baby - tired, harrassed, knowing they do not look their best - with a good dose of hormones too to add to the mix.

It is inevitable that you (as the parents who knew the first wife) will be the focus of her anxieties. She is hitting out because she feels insecure and fragile - it is unlikely to be anything to do with you personally.

I would say, continue to do what you are doing: bide your time, tread gently, do not rise to the bait. I am sure she will come round in time - she needs a lot of "positive strokes" just now.

If things get difficult, slip away without any offence taken and say you are happy to come again on a day when she is feeling up to it. The less confrontation there is the better - and the less your son feels obliged to defend you the better.

Familes - who'd hav'em!

I would definitely NOT record anything. What are you going to do with it? Say 'here's what she said to us'???

That will only make things worse. I'm getting bad vibes here.

louisamay I really do feel for you. When something suddenly goes wrong and you don't know what triggered the problem you can tie yourself in knots trying to figure it out. It's really hard.
I understand why you might want to have a record of your daughter in law's outbursts - and many grans on here have related tales of people saying things to them that they later deny and would have been very glad to have such a record - but if you do use your recording device you will need a great deal of wisdom about when, and to whom, you might play it. From what you say there's no doubt that your son believes you when you describe these outbursts so who else might you play a recording to and why? It's worth asking the question.
Do try to keep on being calm and reasonable; if your daughter in law is suffering from PND she is not exactly in control of her thoughts just now, but with support she'll come through the other side and your relationship can be restored.

I don't want to give the impression that I am going to record all conversations! And, if DIL goes into meltdown, it wont be a 'conversation', so, a quick button press will record her rants. Often I am by myself when I visit the house. It may never happen....it's an option.

I would be very wary of recording conversations although I can fully understand why you are tempted to do so.

So sorry to read your posts Louisamay. As a mother of sons and therefore two DILs I can only advise you to keep calm, say nothing in response to negative comments, only visit if son is there and find things to keep you and DH busy elsewhere. Your DIL does seem to have PND and maybe difficulties regarding your son's ex. Even if perceived problems are all in her mind. She sounds like she has family support. I know it is hard being the MiL, but over time your GS will be a little boy who loves his GPs, so it's worth biting your tongue and keeping communications open now. Best wishes for how it turns out. X

Kittylester. I am appalled too, but we were wrongly accused of being aggressive and bullying. We were also told to get out of the house.
My son does not want me to go round only when he is there, he works long hours and sometimes baby is in bed when he gets home. He wants us all to get on . Even though he believes how she behaved, he is struggling. I will do whatever it takes to protect myself because , God forbid , next time we might be accused of attacking her . Who knows?

Kittylester - yes, the thought appals me too but when you are wrongly accused of bullying and being aggressive to a young mother, you have to protect yourself! While she was shouting, the baby started crying (he was in her arms) and she accused us of upsetting him. What is she going to say next - that I attacked her??

I don't understand what you want to prove by recording something?

She doesn't say anything contentious in texts or emails. And I don't think she will. I haven't had a text or email in the last couple of days which is very unusual. Until the problem started she would email/text regularly, and send little videos and photos of baby. Prior to the 'key' episode we always got on well. SO weird.
I am just so glad to have found this forum. Talking about it with friends and family makes me more upset as they get angry for me and that doesn't help, not really.

two wrongs don't make a right ... so said my mum many years ago

The thought of recording makes me very uneasy

I am appalled that you would resort to that sort of thing whatever the provocation!

Thank you Smileless. I did suggest to my son that we only go round when he is there but he doesn't want that. He says we need to try and resolve things but hasn't put forward any suggestions.

I haven't told him but just yesterday I managed to download an app to my phone which records conversations! It is brilliant and I have tried it out with a friend earlier - put the phone on record and popped it in a small handbag. The clarity is amazing. If only I had thought about this last week! Terrible to resort to this I know, but desperate situations sometimes require desperate measures. What do others think?

I am so very sorry louisamay this is a terribly upsetting situation for you to be in. My heart goes out to you and your hubby. We found ourselves in a very similar situation 2 years ago and unfortunately we were unable to resolve the problems which seemed to quite literally come out of thin air; the situation remains painfully unresolved.

I know some of the other posters on this thread have questioned whether your d.i.l. could be suffering from PND and this is a possibility but it's strange that she seems to have singled out you and your hubby and is OK with friends and her own family. I had PND following the birth of my second child. I was weepy, didn't want to see any one and was afraid to leave the house on my own. I only have my own experience to draw on, but I honestly don't think PND would make some one spiteful and manipulative.

You ask how you can cope, you just have to try and take each day at a time. I would suggest if I may, that you don't go round unless your son is there and that you keep 'phone conversations with her to a minimum, corresponding via text messages. If your intuition about her being manipulative is correct, you need to restrict if you can, her ability to do this. This may seem a little melodramatic but if your son is present and you have saved texts, you cannot be accused of doing or saying things that you haven't done or said.

There is very little you can do for now except have as much contact with your son as possible and of course with your d.i.l. when she is willing. I hope things settle down and in the mean timefor you.

Just to add, we have had no contact with ex DIL since 2010

LOUIS this is such a mess, I have no words but can only send a ((HUG))

Hi. Its taken me a couple of days to update the situation as I have been really shaken up by events that followed last Tuesday.Just to recap, I have a key to my sons house (see initial post) and after baby was born DIL suggested I use it. Somewhere along the way she, apparently, 'hinted' that I shouldnt use it and I didnt take the hint. She was outraged by this and it caused an outburst. My first post shows the procedure and circumstances for using the key. I thought we had got past that because that evening DIL texts me and says we can see baby the following day but it will have to be between 7 and 9 am (yes, very early) as her mother is coming round later that day. I cant figure why she doesnt want us to be in the same house at the same time as we get on fine......anyway, because it is so early we say we will come at 8am but if there is any change of plan just send a text. We heard nothing so we arrive at 8am on the dot and knock quiety. DIL opens the door immediately, has baby in her arms and says that he woke early so will be going for a nap any time soon. I say thats OK, we understand and we can go off and do some shopping and maybe see baby another day. At this point she goes into meltdown shouting that we would 'never have said that before' and that we were 'trying to be funny'. When I protested, she said we could 'either come in and see baby, or get out of MY house. (Just to clarify: no one has even spoken about whose house it is! Son went through costly financial proceedingss when ex wife, to whom he was married one year, tried to force the sale of the house which he had brought several years prior to even meeting her and to which she made no contribution at any point even though she was a high earner.
DIL started saying that she was not a bitch like my son's ex wife and that we obviously thought she was. We have no idea where this all comes from as we have never mentioned ex's name or ever thought she was anything like her. We were staggered as it went on and on. She said to me 'look at you, coming round here with aggressive body language bullying me.' Hand on heart I have no idea what she meant, I am a slightly built 69 year old and wouldnt know how to be aggressive if you paid me! Probably the hardest thing I ever did was just to stand there and talk quiety to her - I told her we have never compared her to the ex wife and that we liked her and thought she was a great mum. All this is true, we have never experienced the anger that is coming from her. I calmed her down and chatted to her for a while. After a while she went upstairs but returned to tell me that she had phoned my son and he was coming home from work. I couldnt believe it! Son arrived 30 minutes later looking extremely harrassed and said to us (me and hubby) that this couldnt continue and it had to be sorted out). He seemed unable to say much to her as she had her arms round him saying 'Darling, so sorry I had to drag you into this.' !!! She did a complete about turn and apologised for being 'short' with us (thats an understatement), however when I reminded her that it was hurtful when she was telling us to get out of the house, she looked quizical and started to backtrack saying thats not what she meant. It seemed obvious that my son was worried about upsetting her and thats why he was addressing his remarks to us. However, at some point he did tell her that she should not speak to us like that and we have always been mindful of her wishes and tried to help when possible. Well, it was hugs all round then and she asked me to return on Thursday and watch baby while she did some shopping. So I did, at the appointed time, She opened the door, told me to be quiet (!) as baby was napping. She then walked off upstairs and said nothing further. Feeling like a spare part, I found a book and sat reading in the conservatory until she came down 30 minutes later, told me baby was still napping, plonked the baby monitor own on the table and went out without another word.
She returned from shopping an hour and a half later and was still frosty. By this time it was 1pm so I said I would go home and get some lunch. She barely managed 'OK.' We have had no contact since but poor son is so concerned about it all - he wants us to all get on (we did!) and he sent a text that made me weep. Since he has been an adult, he has never been very demonstrative, physically or verbally to us but has always been a very kind and caring person, not just to us but to everyone. The text said how much he loved us both and thanked us for how we handled the situation and remained 'cool.' So, he knows what she has put us through but he also says she is not that bad with him, her parents or friends - he has no idea why she has singled us out for this treatment. OK, so she may have PND but does that make people spiteful and manipulative? If she wasnt the mother of our grandson, we would just not bother having further contact. To re-iterate, we have no idea why she thinks we might compare her to the ex wife. The problem is that it is in danger of becoming a self-fulfilling prophency. PLEASE, how can I cope with this. We adore our grandson and she has said she wont stop us seeing him, and my son has told us not to be too concerned about it, but then she might just go on the turn again. Before I retired I was in a job where I brought people together who were having disputes, and tried to get them to negotiate and agree. I'm failing here, obviously.....

It sounds to me like she's suffering from post natal depression, which may be linked to just hormonal changes or to those changes plus her personality type.

People who feel driven to try and achieve perfection often have an underlying insecurity. Going through labour and then caring for a new baby, apart from being exhausting, can, I think, make a person feel panicky and out of control, particularly if they have formerly been, or have appeared to have been, very capable and in control.

Although it must be upsetting and hurtful for you, perhaps you could bear in mind that she has criticised her own parents too - so it's not really personal but just the way she's feeling at the moment.

As other have said, carry on being friendly and supportive and hopefully things will soon settle down.

Is your son concerned about her? If he feels she is over anxious and that her behaviour is becoming erratic, perhaps he could seek some advice from their GP. I wonder if there are also charities that could give him advice over the telephone.

In other words, you can't do right for doing wrong at the moment, can you?

I'd just sit back and wait for the next invite. She will come round. It is probably being overwhelmed at being a first time mum, we have all been there. Maybe we were a bit sharp with someone and didn't realise at the time.

As for telling her mother things, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you get on well normally with her mother, she will know what you are like and what her daughter is like. She probably knows that she is untruthful at times, she's not had her for all her years and not know what she can be like. Just be your usual self when you next meet and this will dispel anything her daughter has told her. I do know how you feel though as my daughter talks about me behind my back and makes me uncomfortable around her partner and friends.

We can only do our best as parents/grandparents and at the end of the day as long as we know what we have done, then we have no recriminations to answer to.

Take your mind off it for a while, go out with your DH to the theatre or for a meal and let your DS and DiL realise that you have a life of your own too.

Take care of yourself

Yes Kate, i have been doing meals once or sometimes twice a week and taking them round at the requested time, often through heavy work traffic at 5.30 - 6pm! As far as I'm aware son is very attentive to her AND baby. He looks so worn out whenever I see him. He works in a high pressure environment and I'm sure could do without this.
DIL told me she has discussed me intruding into the house with her mother!
So that's thrown a spanner into the works. Son said DONT speak to her mother as she already has her daughters spin on things and isn't going to believe you. True I suppose. But now I feel embarrassed that her parents think I have just barged into the house uninvited. I have to say I don't think she will have been truthful. I hate all this as it's just sh** stirring.
Oh, the bell was rung as she said before she hates it when people knock 'loudly', and the bell is so much more subtle it's less likely to wake baby up!