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Wars fought and terrorist acts in the name of religion are obscene

(20 Posts)
Anne58 Thu 04-Sep-14 20:06:48

What I said in the thread title really.

Perhaps my own take on religion could be deemed over simplified.

I have said this before, so apologies for those who may have seen it previously.

Big orange shiney thing in the sky?

English, the sun
French, Le Soleil
Japanese, Tayio

In every language we are talking about the same thing, could it possibly be that God, Buddha, Allah etc are just alternative names for the same deity/divine being?

Mishap Thu 04-Sep-14 20:16:34

Indeed; but convince these fundamentalist lunatics that this might be so? - Not a hope.

A safer world with no postulated divine beings I think.

But there will still be plenty of other ideas that will be dreamt up for having a war. It is part of our genetic make-up - kill or be killed.

PRINTMISS Fri 05-Sep-14 08:07:28

I agree Phoenix, I find it hard to understand that people who profess to have a faith/belief in a God, can kill and maim in that name.

feetlebaum Fri 05-Sep-14 08:39:14

Oh that's easy, PRINTMISS: people with a religion/god all have the ONLY TRUE one, and they are all different... So everybody else is a heretic, because they are also claiming the only true god! So of course the only thing to do is kill them... Isn't it?

PRINTMISS Fri 05-Sep-14 08:57:32

That might well be feetle, but I still find it hard to understand, possibly because I do not want to, head in the sand sort of attitude I suppose. Personally I would not want to have a faith which condoned killing in that name, but there again I believe in freedom to choose, so I cannot have it both ways.

ginny Fri 05-Sep-14 09:33:20

Wars and terrorist act are obscene in the name of religion or not. I wish I had an answer to stop all killing and hate. sad

Anniebach Fri 05-Sep-14 09:45:39

What about wars caused because a country wants another country's oil, land, etc. Wars are caused by man not God

Perhaps atheists don't kill?

Aka Fri 05-Sep-14 09:49:00

There may be some light at the end of the tunnel. I've just read in the a Times that a number of young Jidhadists are asking to come home, disgusted and disillusioned by the violence and bloodshed.

They say they are willing to undergo de-radicalisation and be monitored.

Can you imagine the impact these returnees could have on other young Muslim men considering going to join ISIS?

I know some might see this as another Trojan Horse type of manoeuvre but I can well believe that many could feel horror at what they see and are being forced to do.

Aka Fri 05-Sep-14 09:49:43

Good point Anniebach

Ana Fri 05-Sep-14 09:51:39

I must admit I was sceptical when I read those headlines, Aka. Time will tell, I suppose...

annodomini Fri 05-Sep-14 09:54:50

Sorry to disillusion you, Anniebach, but the atheistic Soviet régime of Stalin and his sidekick Beria was one of the most vicious of the 20th Century.

Mishap Fri 05-Sep-14 10:25:31

Indeed, excuses to kill are rife - religion, territory, goods, political dogma (religion by another name) - it will always be so. We are primed to be competitive; we have to strive to override that. We always fail to one degree or another.

The particular danger of religious wars is that each side claim a higher (indeed ultimate) authority so have no reason to back down - god is always on their side.

Religion deals in fundamentals and so has an inevitable bias towards fundamentalism.

Nonnie Fri 05-Sep-14 10:51:44

Does any religion say we should kill? I doubt it and think most cruel people become so because of their culture and use religion as an excuse. Then atheists claim the killing is because of the religion and round and round it all goes.

I think it is culture which has caused the problems in Birmingham (and other) schools. I think it is culture which caused the problems in Rotherham (and other places). I think it is culture that caused the kidnap (and probably indoctrination) of all those girls. I think it is culture which causes FGM. I think it is culture that stops girls being educated because they are girls and I think it is culture which causes ISIS to kill/sell anyone not of their religion. BUT I think it is POWER which makes the Russians invade other countries.

suebailey1 Fri 05-Sep-14 10:56:04

I think people use religion as an excuse and as a vehicle for the desire for power and money.

nightowl Fri 05-Sep-14 11:12:04

Quite Nonnie

The atheist Chinese regime was one of the cruellest regimes ever, and I believe the repercussions are still being felt today. The repression of religion can be as totalitarian as religion itself. Humans simply have a capacity for cruelty unmatched by other species, and any excuse will do.

Mishap Fri 05-Sep-14 11:48:47

I don't think that there is any disagreement that wars are fought for a variety of reasons (listed above), but religious wars are particularly dangerous because of their reference to an ultimate authority as their justification.

I know plenty of theists who are as concerned as I am about that fact. The concern is not exclusive to atheists or agnostics.

The fact that most religions preach love and kindness (which is I think phoenix's point) does not seem to get us anywhere.

"Humans simply have a capacity for cruelty unmatched by other species, and any excuse will do." Exactly nightowl - it is inbuilt.

I am always fascinated when religious people acknowledge that fact but put no onus upon their deity, who, after all, constructed us (and the rest of nature) in that way. There are tortuous attempts (via various myths) to place the blame on humanity for their innate nature - I find that puzzling. We are as we are and we have to fight to be kind to our neighbour sometimes - it is a lifelong battle and is the nature of our lives.

gillybob Fri 05-Sep-14 12:01:39

Yes I read that too Aka . However I am very suspicious of them wanting to come back and be "de-radicalised". More like wanting to get back in the country and panic setting in incase a sudden change in the law forbids them from returning.

whitewave Fri 05-Sep-14 12:06:03

I am not convinced that cruelty is innate in the human species. Why not the opposite i.e. kindness and empathy?

Traditional societies often have a high degree of equality, and empathy, so I err on the side of learned behaviour rather than innate

Nonnie Fri 05-Sep-14 12:31:27

I agree with you whitewave I don't think I am naturally cruel, quite the opposite and it is my nature to want to help rather than hurt. That is why I think it is culture which mainly causes all the issues of one type wanting to impose their life onto others.

HollyDaze Fri 05-Sep-14 13:30:26

so I err on the side of learned behaviour rather than innate

I think I tend to agree with that in the main whitewave - I think very few people take willingly to killing and it has to be learned behaviour for most.