bettering oneself

Good post Jane.

My mother was horrified (well she would be!!) when were asked how many people we were eating and I said 'Just us' in what she said was 'embarrassingly Derbyshire'.

My good friend (and hairdresser) said of someone else, 'She speaks like you - sort of posh!'

Even I can hear myself speaking with a Derbyshire accent. But that is immeasurably better than some of Leicestershire accents that can be found round here.

Maybe it's using good grammar and tenses etc rather than an accent!

Rosequartz I think if a novel is well-written, the writer will catch the turns of phrase peculiar to a particular accent, and so when you read the dialogue, you hear the accent too.
One example that I can think of is Instructions for a Heatwave by Maggie O'Farrell. Most of the characters are Irish, and that shines through the actual words.
Another one is Anne Tyler. I don't think you could read her books without hearing the American accents, because she captures ordinary people's speech habits so well.

Someone upthread said they modified their accent to avoid being thought posh. I'm struggling to understand this. Some people think I'm posh, whereas others seem to delight in detecting my Stockport accent.
Is it worse to be thought posh, or not posh? I'm not sure, but one thing I am sure of is that life's just too short to worry about whether people think I'm posh or not posh, and to modify my accent accordingly

petra well done, some people would have sunk, you are obviously a survivor!
- not for consolation but for achievement!

Sometimes it's a case of mere survival isn't it, petra! You wouldn't have looked on it as bettering yourself - it was, perhaps, sink or swim! Some of us could write a book.... !!

Just having a laugh to myself about bettering oneself. In my case it had to get better, it couldn't get much worse.
Two alcoholic parents. Father went to prison for GBH. Had to leave school at 14 to look after Brother (a baby) and younger sister because my Mother was in a mental home.
I suppose I did better myself because I retired at 55 with 3 mortgage free properties and money in the bank. All thanks to hard work, lots of luck, and meeting the right people.
I don't know where it comes from, but I've never felt bitter about it all. In fact i do get a lot of laughs out of it in a very twisted way.

And accents again - I only realised last night that sometimes when I am reading, my brain is reading in the supposed accents of the different people in the book.
Perhaps I am just odd.

I wasn' t going to contribute any more, but I just have to say how amazed I am at the difference between Scottish and English higher education around 1960. anno you state that in Scotland anyone with ability went on to university, whereas I believe that in England only about 5% went on to university ( despite many having had a rigorous grammar school education). Many did go into further education as far as I remember.
A background of tenant farmers, journalists and authors does sound quite privileged, though, which does prove my earlier point.

(Not said with any envy or antagonism, I hasten to add, anno)

To be happy with one's lot is what I meant to type (bloomin' tiny screen on this smartphone!)

I agree totally, Eloethan. It obviously didn't faze the chap when as he spoke with you - or his wife and family when you were at their house, either. It's really all about an individual's confidence, isn't it? To be happy with one's lt and not feel the need to strive to 'keep up with the Joneses' is how I see it. A bit like Mildred's sister in the sitcom George and Mildred (DH loves it - he's a bit like George, actually )! My MiL used to put on a posh accent when she boasted about the successes of one of her other sons and his family. I'm sure she had no idea she was doing it. I see us all as equal. We come into the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. It's how you treat people along the way, is what matters.

I'll tell you something that really made me think about how people - myself included - can sometimes make judgments about others, based on things that don't really matter.

About 28 years ago, when we were living in Lancashire, we were travelling down to Suffolk to visit my parents one year - I think it was at Christmas - when our car broke down near Chesterfield. My husband pulled to the side, got out and looked at the engine. A car stopped in front of us and a man of about 40-45 got out and asked if he could help. They both peered at the engine and neither of them knew what the problem was. My husband asked if the chap could give him a lift to a phone box so he could ring the AA. The chap said, I'll give you a tow back to my house and you can ring from there. You've got two children in the car and it's cold. You might have to wait a while - you can wait at ours until the AA gets there.

So, that's what we did. We met this man's wife and, from what I remember, two or three older children, and they invited us into their sitting room. It was a complete mess, totally disorganised, with clothes strewn around and used mugs and cups everywhere.

Those people were so kind and hospitable - offering us cups of tea and biscuits. We had to wait quite some time for the AA man to come but they never made us feel uncomfortable at any time.

So maybe their house was a bit scruffy and they weren't too bothered about housework but they welcomed us - four strangers - into their home and to my mind that made them decent, kind human beings. Surely that is what matters most?

I must admit that every time I read the title of this thread, I see 'battering oneself.'

I apologise if I offended you, Ethel. The reason I asked your age was because I don't know anyone, under a certain age who uses the term 'bettering oneself' or who still believes that Teachers and millionaires don't swear.

Is bettering oneself or being successful truly measured by what one owns? In that case I'm a total failure because I own very little and most of that came from freecycle.

However I did come from a very poor background, worked hard, got a degree from the OU whilst working and bringing up 2 children, continued to work and did a part-time PGCE and taught for several years before I became too ill to work and had to claim benefits. Was that bettering myself?

One of the nicest couples I ever knew were also the untidiest people in the world. Until I was around 14 I thought whenever we visited we were always interrupting the lady ironing. Then found out that she never put the ironing board away.

A lot of people are using Keeping Up Appearances as examples. Well I'd much rather spend time with Onslow and Daisy than with Hyacinth.

rosequartz, on the contrary, in Scotland in my youth, it was expected that anyone, from whatever background, who had the ability should be able to go to University. Many of my contemporaries were the first generation of their family to go on to Higher Education, though I admit that my generation was the second in our family. Having said that, my great grandfather (from a tenant farming background) and grandfather, having been through the school system, were largely self-educated and reached highly respected positions in the world of journalism and authorship. I can't say that any of their descendants (so far) have hit those heights!

ethel!

Im a bit of both, Nellie, must have a split personality. I do love Hyacynth though, I watched her tonight and record all the episodes. I cant wait for DD to get married as she has been threatening to for a couple of years, so I can get a hat like hyacinth. lol
x

Ethelbags1 I was not talking about the jobless on benefits.

I was talking about the expression, "bettering yourselves" and how it seems to have been interpreted on here as having two different meanings.

Getting educated and working to get a better job.

Or wanting to be posh with all the things that might imply. A better accent, influential friends, wanting to live in a big house.

I was trying to establish exactly which view you took about this position

Either of these options might be a life goal for you, but in itself it does not mean you should look down on other peoples lifestyles or that you are any better than they are. You might just have had better life chances.

Have you not heard the expression something like "walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you judge them"?

Which means that we should all remember that everyone has different experiences in their lives which shape their personality, self confidence and motivation.

So, are you, at heart, a Hyacinth Bucket wanting to up your social station, or just improve your education to boost your own confidence and get a more interesting job? Do tell.

I would hate it ethel, no question

Interesting thread, ethel

Thanks!

oh dear I must check with my employer if it is 6 months or 1 year. Im not well paid so it might be 1 year. ?? (shock horror)
this is my very last word on this.lol

x post

Of course they wouldn't, ethel!

I think there may be many on Gransnet who have never had any thoughts of 'bettering themselves' because they came from privileged backgrounds anyway.

I have had a mixed bag of reactions to this thread but many of you come across as being critical of my attitudes. That is ok, we all have our opinions, it would be a funny world if we were all the same but I gather from reading many of the posts that many of you gnetters are from financially secure backgrounds for which you have no doubt worked hard for. I feel that some of you may agree with me, but maybe not say out loud, that you would not mix with/look down upon people who are social misfits.
How many of you would be ok with squalid gardens like I have described, next door, how many of you would be happy with drug users/drunkards shouting at all hours in your streets. Would you be ok with them and treating them with respect the next day. I think many of you would just ignore them and think 'thank goodness I/my family are not like them.
My last word

anno that is good, but many people did not have the benefit of a university education - only about 5% went to university when I was young. In my experience, most of the ones who did were 'middle-class' and would have no notion of where ethel is coming from.

(x posts, rose)