bettering oneself

My cousin is like your DD, rubylady. She grew up on a council estate but hates to be reminded of it.

My mother in law, who had absolutely nothing, the family always depended on relatives' spare rooms for accommodation, used to make my father in law walk a few steps behind her she thought she was so above him! rubylady - I think my DD is on that pedestal with yours.

I was taught in two languages too. Our teachers said that there was nothing wrong with speaking Hull as long as you were in Hull but that we had to learn to speak English too so that the rest of the world could understand us

It really was, and still is, important to understand what is appropriate. You may then choose to behave or talk in an inappropriate manner but you do need to know.

My English teacher taught us two languages (he said), Norfolk and English. He used the Norfolk to teach English grammar, emphasising the differences. I'm constantly surprised when I have to speak proper when incomers can't understand me.

Hi Rosequartz,

Yes we used to think that Latin would sound more like Italian than anything else and used to have fun trying it out. My DH was given a detention at Grammar School when he was 12 because he didn't know the Creed. He came from a working class non religious home so how would he have known it? I did but only because I was raised RC.

After the poetry reading incident I calmed my accent down a lot but like NotTooOld it does come back during times of stress. I find myself saying Blimey (West Country) and "where's me purse."

In later years I taught adults job seeking skills and pointed out that an accent was fine but to use correct grammar.

Going back a long, long way, my cousin who was a Health Visitor up north during the 30s suffered a lot of snobbery from Consultants because she had a local accent. She spent a lot of time ironing it out when she was around the big wigs, but her accent helped her enormously when visiting the local folk. My mum who was Irish had a telephone voice when she used to try and sound English. It used to upset me to be honest because I liked her voice just as it was.

I grew up in a council house. My father worked hard all his life and was thrilled to buy his own house just after I married. I never felt anyone was better than me where we lived, we all lived in council houses they were all newly built. However I went to the local secondary modern, didn't pass my eleven plus and spent my school years hearing teachers tell me I'd never amount to anything. This made me really angry, my father always told me no one is any better than anyone else and it actually spurred me on to prove them wrong. I now am actually better qualified than the teachers who scorned me but I would not think I am better than people without qualifications, but I don't think I'm any worse than anyone either. We are all our own person and equal.

I've only just looked at this thread and my response has to be "How could anyone improve on perfection?"

In a phone conversation with my 75 year old dad the other day, he said "you've not changed you, have you?" Which I am really glad of. I was brought up with no-one is better than you and no-one is worse than you, which is how I brought up my children, or so I thought.

My DD now looks down her nose at as many people as she can possibly do, from the very high pedestal she seems to have put herself upon. Me included.

I didn't sit the scholarship for grammar school. Mother said they were all too posh..... a reflection of her own self worth. I did an extra two years at school to learn shorthand, typing, bookkeeping.....So I could work in an office and not be a factory worker. Oh, but I envied the girls who left school and went to work in the factory.
The idea of uni did not exist in our family.

My DH was very highly placed in the scholarship exams. He did not go to grammar school. 7 brothers and sisters, no money for rugby gear, etc.
DH joined the Royal Navy at aged15, didn't have all the items as per the provided list. His father left him to the boat for England and gave him 10/-. At 15 he made his way alone to Plymouth.

All of our 4 boys have professions....3 work hard, 1(the youngest) tries to coast along and thus is unlikely to make the most of possible opportunities.

I think education broadens the scope and is enhanced by a good attitude and work ethos. Perhaps our youngest got it rather much easier than the others !!

Falconbird I agree that it is nonsense that anyone should be judged by their accent. However, unfortunately I don't think you're right in assuming that these prejudices don't still exist.

This is part of report in The Guardian:

" ....... Just last week a teacher from Cumbria was given an official target to "sound less Cumbrian" ......

"....... According to recent surveys eight in 10 employers admit to making discriminating decisions based on regional accents, according to research from law firm Peninsula ....

"Accents also have hugely varying degrees of impact on prospective employers and different dialects demonstrate different qualities and drawbacks. The Liverpool, Cockney and Brummie accents come off badly, whereas received pronunciation (RP) or the "Queen's English" fare better ...."

Hear, hear, KatyK. Its not about what we've got, it's about who we are. As for accents, even the BBC now actively encourage their presenters to use their own regional accent, if they have one. Remember the old days when they all used received pronunciation - a 'BBC accent'? Brought up in London, I had a semi-cockney accent. Unfortunately it seems to have disappeared over the years (we've moved around a lot) but in times of stress it tends to make a reappearance, me ol' cock sparrer.

I've always thought education is the way to 'get on' in life but that's not always so. I do think education brings self esteem, though, not to mention a lot of pleasure.

Translated it reads " which foot fits which foot"!!!

?

I live in an area with a very strong regional accent/dialect.... if you saw Trawlermen you'll know what I mean! There's a local story of a young lady who went skiing for the first time - when she hired her ski boots she's reputed to have asked "fit fit fits fit fit?" Work it out!!

It depends what is meant by 'bettering yourself'.

People who were brought up to expect a certain level of comfort may not understand the need to strive for a better quality of life than they knew when they were a child.

My parents wanted a better education for us than they were able to receive (my DM passed the scholarship but was unable to take up her place at grammar school because her family were too poor). So yes, she wanted better for us and did her very best to make sure of that.
If 'bettering yourself' means working hard to provide a better standard of living for your children than you experienced yourself then I am all for it.
No-one ever tried to influence my choice of friends and I would not have let them anyway.

If bettering yourself means a form of Hyacinth Bucket snobbery then no, no!

Falconbird I have often wondered what sort of accent the Romans had - certainly not the received pronunciation we learnt at school - I imagine it to be dramatic and poetic rather like Italian today!

Neither can I.

"It hit it!"

Can't, I'm afraid!

I was brought up in Essex and had elocution lessons to make quite sure I spoke "proper"!

My mother's low point was when she heard some children in the street playing marbles and one said with great joy "I' 'i' i'" - work it out!

When I moved down to the SW to take up a job as a MO in the DSS. My colleagues were all ex military elderly types and mocked (gently) my Black Country accent.
After 37 years down here, I think, that I have largely lost it, but a trace still remains.

x

Awww...... loopylou
I guess you can laugh about it now though.

I agree rosesarered, however I still failed to meet my mother's expectations.....