Grandsons dad keeps all his clothes, and doesnt send them back

That's spot on Nelliemoser, like you, I've heard this kind of things many times. Children's services have been cut to the bone and I read this week that many of the contact centres, set up by charities, are having to close because of the impact of cuts by central government.

Some parents or grandparents will attempt to draw children's services into what are in the end, no more than spiteful unresolved arguments between separated parents. Of course, those parents are in the minority and don't include bikergran or her daughter, who are focussed on trying to do the best for their little boy. I know how difficult it is to protect children from the acrimony that often lingers after separation - I was a divorcee with a small child once myself. It isn't always easy to avoid conflict when a parent is behaving as badly as this father is but it's usually worth it for the sake of the child.

Could he be reported to the police, or could it be threatened, for theft?

Unfortunately I am not at all surprised by any of these stories. I have heard such tales many times.
Childrens sevices have no resources and would not address these issues unless actual abuse has occured at time, send the children in decent and inexpensive charity shop stuff. Not too many spares.

Once at work I had a call from a whinging ex father to suggest that his mum was not looking after the child properly because she sent the child with unironed clothes.

I feel sometimes think some ex partners would be happier if one palmed them off with the wide screen television and other such luxury goods rather than their child. All this spitefullness is very sad.

oh there is many a person willing to !take this person on" but! as I say he has his back covered form all angles, GS does not say everytime that he doesn't want to go, example if there is family party going on he is there with bells on and also when he goes his dads he seese all his cousins as a lot of the time I think he ends up at the other Nanas, he also has a step sister whos 5 so there is a family environment for him, its just this clothes business which is something we have now put into place, there is no "getting one over on this person" believe me if there was we would have sorted it a long time ago. GS is now realisinmh his empty promises as he gets older, but yet he wont bad mouth his dad, Gs doesn't have any malice in him and I wouldn't want to force that upon him even though we all feel angry.We will see how plan B goes with the clothes and hopefully we wont be missing many more clothes. thanks again to all.

I am utterly astonished by the pettiness of this – not you bikergran but this ridiculous man. Of course it is hugely difficult with your grandson locked in the middle of this completely absurd behaviour, but it truly has to stop. I think he is using the silly, tiresome (and expensive) business as a power play. The time has come for someone to stand up to this bully. If you feel unable to do this yourself – and I appreciate why not – then perhaps there is someone else in the family or among close friends who might be willing to take on the task. Someone needs to make this man back down from his controlling behaviour.

Kiora said this about her DGS :

My daughter used to ask him if he wanted to go to his dad's and he'd say yes. I eventually convinced her to tell our boy that he couldn't go anymore because he wasn't being looked after properly. The look of relief on his face was wonderful ................What he needed was for an adult to shoulder the blame and make the decision on his behalf.

It's worth thinking bikergran how your DGS is being affected by having these visits to his father who "tells lies" and takes his clothes away. It may not be worth making him endure them, for the sake of getting a bit of child-minding.

Iam64 you more or less have it in a nutshell, and your right the dad does play games as he always has done, its either that or he is just thick !to think anything of it, its a very delicate line we have to take when partners split up, I myself try to keep GS out of earshot and I don't want him to feel it is "his fault" which sometimes children do, it just gets frustrating at times, but we are learning to live with it and will be more "on the ball so to speak"

Faye it would make a lot more work for DD back and forth especially at holidays, as she would have to do every journey. GS doesn't always say he doesn't want o go, but now he is going on for 9 this year he loves to play out as DD with his mates, his dad is forever moving house so never makes friends, im sure that pretty soon he will eventually stop going.

anno DD doesn't' have the money for courts etc we have been down the CAB route for other things years ago, the courts can be long drawn out affairs, and goodness knows how much as DD is working, although on maternity at the mo. GS dad is very knifing, butter wouldn't melt in the mouth person, you know the sort! the ones that always!! comes up smelling of roses! doesn't matter what he does he comes out grinning.

I have acquired a bag of clothes that should suit, for "dads weekends"
thanks for all ideas everyone, hope it may have helped others.

bikergran is it possible for your GS to only visit his father during the day but not stay overnight. I would say keeping his good clothes and sending him back in ill fitting clothes was enough for me to put a stop these games. If your daughter is working and for the times she needs the boy to be looked after by her ex, couldn't she just pick him up at the end of each day and drop him off the next day if need be?

It sounds like your GS doesn't really want to stay at his father's house most of the time, so not having to stay overnight might be a better alternative.

Bikergran's post today at 16.32 sounds like the plan is to follow the sensible suggestions here and make sure the little boy goes to his dad's in 'playing out' clothes. It's a sad fact that some parent's use their children in order to upset their former partner. I think Bikergran is right when she says social workers probably have children in greater need than she feels her grandson is at present.
I agree a list of clothes should be kept but unless photographs can be taken in a fun way, that don't leave the little boy feeling caught between something over which he has no control, I'd try and avoid building 'evidence' unless it's a case of neglect. I do feel the way the dad is behaving is neglectful of the little boy's physical and emotional needs, he's playing games and ought to be ashamed of himself. From biker's posts, it doesn't sound as though reasoning with him would help though it may be worth mentioning the little boy won't be bringing new/expensive clothes or shoes because the cost of replacing them is too much.
Good luck bikergran, it's a rotten situation for you and your loved ones

I would suggest that your daughter should see an adviser at CAB and possibly get a free interview with a family law solicitor if she can find one that offers this facility. You and she are being put to unnecessary expense by having to constantly replace items of clothing. Where is the father getting hold of all these unsuitable garments? An agreement for contact and maintenance, rubber-stamped by the court might make him think twice.

kitty yes spermie would use it as an excuse not to pay up too.

soontube no, no mileage whatsoever he wouldn't give a **. there is no reasoning with him when he is in one of his "moods".

shabby. ooh I hope your name is not how you think of yourself.
I think it is a balancing act of how much and how often is best for children to see dads who behave as the dads on here.
I used to do volunteer work for several years with children who were fostered. Some of them were quite desperate to see more of their dads. While others were glad that they no longer had to.

bikergran. Is there any mileage for your daughter in saying to her ex, look,your son is sort of representing you, and see how you let him be dressed?

Kiora yes I know what you mean...as when GS said he didn't want to go to his dad the other week....DD said ok well ill give you phone and you can ring him and tell him, but GS said no "you do it" I don't want to, I think on one hand GS doesn't want asking "why did you not want to come last week" from his dad...and also in a silly sort of way GS doesn't want to hurt his dads feelings!

shabby I think you have a valid point. We put up with clothes situation for some time. But our little lad started to get bladder infections because he was kept in his soiled urine clothes over two or three days when staying with his dad. He never wet himself with us. My daughter used to ask him if he wanted to go to his dad's and he'd say yes. I eventually convinced her to tell our boy that he couldn't go anymore because he wasn't being looked after properly. The look of relief on his face was wonderful and he has never wet the bed since. Just as I had thought, he told us later that he was frightened that his dad would find out he'd said he didn't want to go. What he needed was for an adult to shoulder the blame and make the decision on his behalf. My daughter still feels that the legal system made matters worse and prolonged his suffering. She wishes that she just not sent him. He never bothered taking her back to court. I'm sure lots of children are suffering in the same way as you and our little lad. Thanks for speaking out

Neutering wouldn't be a bad idea for some of the idiots on here.Sadly it is too late for some.

lol oh heck not neutered lol nurtured (is that how you spell nurtured) well you know what I mean!!

vamp I have always maintained to DD that GS dad should still be part of his life, GS has started now that he has got older says he doesn't want to go to his dads, but then some weekend hes quite happy to go, also if visits were stopped then holidays etc would become a nightmare, as I cannot look after him, DD cannot afford all these clubs etc.
We have both sought advice from various sources,, to be honest, and SS have more "urgent" cases to deal with.its just so frustrating, but I suppose the only way is just to make sure he goes in clothes that we are not bothered about getting back, but like I say its not fair on an 8 yr old to shove him in anything, it doesn't do his confidence any good, I am going to scour the charity shops for cheap cheap clothes.he once sent him back in a pair of 5yrs olds pyjama shorts ,GS seems oblivious at times, but he doesn't argue with his dad as he says his dads shouts at him if he does. As he is growing up he is starting to realise how his dad works! like the promise of going to Greece last year, then it was oh were not going Greece now, we will go somewhere in England, then that too diminished..until in the end they ended buying a dog! a boxer dog at over £500!! of course the novelty of that soon wore off. He tells us now that his dads tells lies and doesn't keep his promises etc etc he is beginning to wise up now! and in time will relise just who nuetured him

soontube oh he turns up in smart clothes most of the time, he doesn't go without! and next week GS will be going back in the clothes he came home in.

nina, what an idiot. I'd be inclined to stop the visits too, although the idiot would see that as a reason to stop any money that was forthcoming!

shabby, I'm so sorry you had to suffer that kind of childhood.

I think your DD definitely needs to seek advice.

Sorry gransnetters you probably won't like my response but I wouldn't let them go to stay with their father. Keep evidence, stop the visits and let the courts/social workers or whichever agency might be involved sort it out. I was on the receiving end of this kind of treatment when my parents split up 55 years ago. My father shredded every bit of clothing that we had, chopped up every stick of furniture and gave away all of our toys to other kids in the flats we lived in. He had access to us every weekend and can you imagine what it felt like to see other children playing with your toys. We slept on a mattress on the floor during visits and whilst he would never have physically hurt us me and my siblings were the subjected to mind games that I still can't go into. The trauma that my father put us as a family through over the years has never really gone away. Eventually the visits were stopped as we refused to go and stay with him. Thankfully we had a haven with my maternal grandparents who we ended up living with. I speak from the heart here please do everything you can to stop this.

Faye they are probably fed junk food. Two boys and father sleep in one double bed

Has your DD sought advice?

nina if a child is coming home with sopping wet nappies how neglected are they ie are they fed properly, sleeping in a warm bed etc? Is their nappy regularly changed during their stay or are they expected to stay wet? I would be loathe to send the child at all to spend time with a man like that. I understand him, he is an arrogant pig.

A friend's son died and the few times she was allowed to have her GC the child would only have her pajamas on. Friend had to go and buy clothes each visit. The situation eventually changed and GP and GC are able to spend more time together now.

His low personal standards shouldn't stop him sending back the clothes the boy arrived in - washed would be better than not, but just keeping them and never producing them again is sheer vindictiveness. And if he threw them iunto the washing machine, the boy could wear them home clean the next time he visited. He is a black hole for clothes.