ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

answer the question if you can Norah
You cant can you?

[not sure it is worth asking the questions, but perhaps it is worth finding out how some people are thinking, assuming they are genuine].

Or son? CO is for sons too.

Why would a functioning son put his child at mental danger being with a toxic mum?

Why would dil want her child near toxic mil?

the gran I mean

What sort of things do you call toxic?

If a child is going down the slide with "toxic gran" watching, what can she do?

Why would a functioning dd want her child around a toxic mum?

If I found someone to be toxic. If I found that I'd didn't like them as a person enough to cut them off there would be no hope in hell of them getting near my child.

Why would getting on be better than acting a martyr?

Nobody is making things up, except those who refuse to understand toxicity.

Brilliant. Martyrs would feel much better getting on with a full life

No they wouldnt and no they dont.

So you are just making things up.

Lets pretend for example that you mum is pure toxic.

Meetings could still be arranged in a neutral place, for a couple of hours a month or whatever, for the grandparent to play with the grandchild in a park, fully supervised or something like that.

No need to fully cut them off.

A fully functioning daughter for example should be able to manage that.
If they cannot, then a person could accompany the child on their behalf.

willsmadnan

"No, nobody needs to be a martyr, but on any of the estranged threads there are regular contributors who revel in it. Thats why they will never put the estrangement at the back of their minds and get on with the rest of their lives. They want to be modern day Joans of Arc, and walk around with smell of the martyr's pyre clinging to them."

Brilliant. Martyrs would feel much better getting on with a full life.

No, nobody needs to be a martyr, but on any of the estranged threads there are regular contributors who revel in it. Thats why they will never put the estrangement at the back of their minds and get on with the rest of their lives. They want to be modern day Joans of Arc, and walk around with smell of the martyr's pyre clinging to them.
A line from John Lennon's ' She's Leaving Home ' ..... "we gave her everything money could buy" resonated with me 50 years ago and still does. It was a phrase I know my parents bleated on multiple occasions after I left home as a soon as it was legally possible,and never returned. But the martyrdom made them feel better!

Ankers Why would anyone want to be around anyone toxic?

Boggles my mind to think anyone should allow themselves to be unhappy.

Nobody needs be a martyr.

No one can really think like Norah purports to think.

How is removing those who cause you distress and anxiety not acceptable?
Why do you all gloss over the distress that having CO people around causes?

I noted I don't condone hitting others, rape, stealing, lying, killing, adultery, cheating or other bad deeds. No unhappiness ensues.

Norah - this is not a personal attack on you or your ethics. But you did say that you believe it is desirable for people to live their lives however they choose. Personally I do not agree that it is acceptable for people to live their lives doing whatever they want if that causes unhappiness all around them.

Ankers Please explain how living my life as I wish (no illegal bits) could distress others, please. I don't condone hitting others, rape, stealing, lying, killing, adultery, cheating or other bad deeds. Just living as I wish.

you

Ankers "Really?"

Directed towards?

So as a question to pp.
do you think it's acceptable to cause the AC so much misery, anxiety and distress by expecting them to maintain a relationship with the people they have CO?

Of course I don't want to be in contact with anyone I dislike enough to CO. Being in contact with anyone I dislike is very distressing. I get nervous just thinking of being near CO worthy people.

I hope you don't mind me asking Norah but just to show the other side.

If you were forced to stay in contact with the CO person, socialise and have them in your life would that be distressing?

Really?

I'm not understanding how living my life as I choose, as long as I am not doing anything illegal, is at all distressing?