ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

So you think that the parents should force their presence on the AC even though it distresses them just to make the parent happy?
So the CO parent is more important then the AC?

But you just said that living as you choose is living your life the best you can - which presumably means that if you choose to live your life in a way that causes distress all around you that is ok

Consideration comes in many forms. Nodding while passing on the corner. Holding a door for elderly folks. Working in the Charity shop. Delivering meals to housebound. who are we to say what is considerate for one is considerate for all?

Sounds like a rather selfish existence to me - shouldn`t we have any consideration for our fellow human beings?

Bibbity "Because nobody is entitled to be in anyone's life. If someone chooses not to have another person around every single reason is justified. Because it's their life."

ITA. Everyone living as they choose is living their life the best they can.

FightingEstrangement1 "It also has to be true that some adult children cut off their parents because although they may have given them financial support and love on their own terms, they also emotionally or physically abused them, possibly due to a personality disorder, possibly as a result of having experienced similar parenting themselves."

This ^ is the common reason. After growing up in toxicity the AC decides not to put up with any more (especially for their children).

But that's what very rarely happens.
What about a grab who cuts off her Ac because they've dared to change the status quo?
She now sees less of them because the AC wants to spend time with her partner? She's grown and talks less on the phone because between work and her new family she has to prioritise people.

But all of this doesn't matter.
Because nobody is entitled to be in anyone's life. If someone chooses not to have another person around every single reason is justified. Because it's their life.

If a gran came on here saying she had cut off her adult child because their behaviour was so destructive (eg because of drug abuse) that it was damaging the whole family I would have every sympathy for her. I would not be impressed by a gran telling us she had cut off her children because she now had a new partner who didn`t want to have anything to do with them.

Why do the majority of people on this thread have to be so polarised in their views?

It has to be true that some adult children/their partners are emotionally abusive and possibly suffer from personality disorders, resulting in them using their spouses/children as weapons in their relationships with their parents or in-laws.

It also has to be true that some adult children cut off their parents because although they may have given them financial support and love on their own terms, they also emotionally or physically abused them, possibly due to a personality disorder, possibly as a result of having experienced similar parenting themselves. The decision to live a life without your parents is often one which adult children don't reach until later in life (and often via professional counselling), because it takes them that long to realise that the obvious signs of 'parental support' doesn't mean that emotional abuse hasn't happened, and isn't damaging their life significantly. Parents who emotionally abuse their children are often completely unaware of what they've done, and no amount of talking will change that - it's the nature of a number of personality disorders.

None of us here know the truth of the situations of others here - some grandparents may have been cut off through no fault of their own and some may be utterly unaware that they have caused the situation. But that's why I baulk at the idea of legislating to provide a right for grandparents to have a relationship with grandchildren. Sometimes it would be a just and decent thing to do, and in other situations, it would be damaging to the grandchild.

This constant back-and-forth and inability to see that every situation is different baffles me. There's so much more to it than GP/AC is toxic.

I'm sorry yoga but that attitude right there is exactly what a lot of AC talk about when they exaplain their reasons for a CO.

Bibbity 'fresh eyes; Brainwashing. Stockholm syndrome!
Come back on here B when your AC, lead by your example CO you and reconnect with their loving GP that they have been cruelly denied!

Excellent point Fairydoll my D would never have co if she had been on her own or with a different partner, we had a very loving, close & happy bond between myself the GC & my ND her sister, so to go from that to complete co isn't normal!

Smileless how wonderful to be asked to be Godparents to your friends Son's baby, clearly showing what good & responsible persons you and your H are.

'But for many they believe they have explained. I've heard countless stories of how they're exhausted trying to explain but the Parents just don't hear. '

Down to a T for us.
We set up boundaries due to past experiences. She didn't agree.
We explained, she didn't agree.
We had a few arguments because she didn't agree. We continued, that's when it started going down hill, because she didn't like what we was doing.
We explained again, and again and she didn't agree and kept ignoring what we was saying.

But she doesn't know what she's done wrong because in her mind (I think) because she doesn't see a problem with what she was doing and saying it shouldn't be an issue. To her it's stupid, it's not worth a thought. To us it was important.

But for many they believe they have explained. I've heard countless stories of how they're exhausted trying to explain but the Parents just don't hear.

This is a situation where someone is going to be unhappy.
It's a very very sad situation for all involved. I'm not denying that.
But if they stay the AC are unhappy and feel that it's not a good place to raise their children.
When they leave the relationship onvioisly the parents are unhappy.
Them leaving doesn't make them evil. And it doesn't always make the Parents evil.
It can just mean that the adults are very very different people and they can not maintain a relationship.

I think its extremely 'toxic' to just cut off a member of ones family without explanation
I suppose its quite reasonable to assume that if our adult children were bought up in very damaging circumstances, then they themselves are damaged by it?
That would explain the inexplicable way they can suddenly switch when there was no hint of resentment about their upbringing..

Bibbity "Do I think that adults should have the choice to cut off people whom they feel bring unhappiness to their lives, who they feel may bring conflict or toxicity." "Yes I do." "Many AC will say there were moments of happiness. However that doesn't outweigh the unhappiness."

Using my example of spanking=abuse. Abuse is not something many AC get over.

"Also past gifts etc can not tie someone into a life time of misery and unhappiness."

Gifts can't gloss over bad behaviour. I agree with Bibbity.

Also Autocorrect has been sent to destroy me. So if my posts are incoherent I do apologise.

Do I think that adults should have the choice to cut off people whom they feel bring unhappiness to their lives, who they feel may bring conflict or toxicity.

Yes I do.
Many AC will say there were moments of happiness. However that doesn't outweigh the unhappiness.
Also past gifts etc can not tie someone into a life time of misery and unhappiness.

Would anyone want to be apart of someone's life knowing they didn't want them there? Knowing their very existence was tolerated?

Bibbity inread your post saying adults co their parents to to improve their lives and I wa just asking if you find this morally acceptable and citing my experience i guess

Sorry if was t very clear?

Celeb I'm sorry but I don't understand your post.

Bibbity do unconsider it acceptable to take all parents can give then cut them off?

It it morally ok to you if a son or daughter is totallymsupported at uni for years, given help buy home,then decide to totally cut off loving parents surely,that is callous, cruel and devoid of any human decency?

MissAdventure "Very true. But again, it doesn't alter the hurt of being totally cut out of their life."

I disagree.

I don't think the abusive GP 'hurt' matters in the life picture I presented, the CO was by their own hand.

Please note, I said the AC was spanked, thus had a abusive childhood and CO the GPs. Yet the GP feigns not understanding. How do AC make GPs understand spanking=abuse?

Very true. But again, it doesn't alter the hurt of being totally cut out of their life.

MissAdventure "It doesn't make it hurt any less for those who are cut out of their family's lives without really understanding or being given a reason why."

Maybe, in some families, the GPs have 'brushed off' as 'insignificant reasons' the explanations given by their AC. Let's say GP spanked their children and AC don't approve spanking but the GP feel they were justified. An enormous difference of opinion, the AC feels they had a abusive childhood and CO the GPs. Yet the GP feigns not understanding?

I acknowledge that. But I've made it no secret I frequent many mums groups. Including DWIL and during the breakdown of the parent/AC relationship almost every single parent ties to say that it couldn't possibly be their child. It must be the absuive partner.
This is called the magic vagina/penis.
It's a running joke on the boards.
However many of the AC are also very insulted by this belief. That they couldn't possibly be strong enough to cease what they believe to be a toxic relationship.
For many it did take 'fresh eyes' for them to see how unhealthy or toxic the relationship is. That could be a new partner stepping in and pointing out that something isn't right.
I'm not denying at all for a single second that being CO isn't excruciating.
But for many AC they're not doing it TO the parent but rather bettering their own lives.
They do not want the relationship anymore. In their eyes they have done all they feel they can. And for them it's the end of the road. Why should they continue to discuss something that to them is complete? When discussing it further would just stop them leading the life they've chosen?

I would urge some so read the boards.
They also go into great detail why they feel it's unacceptable for someone who's CO to have a relationship with their children without them.
I'm sure it has worked for some. But many don't feel like it would be at all appropriate