ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Would be interesting to hear veexox's m-i-l's version of the story. But of course, we only get one side.

absentgrandma there is a very slight possibility of my being upset at your post, if I knew what the fuck you were talking about.

Well, this so-called epidemic certainly isn't silent on GN. It is a bit repetitive though.

I remember when you first posted veexox and I too think you are doing fine. Your MIL is not some poor nonagenarian dependent on her DD and DS (apologies to nonagenarians, just a turn of phrase) but has a DH and she needs to learn to be reasonable. I find it hard to believe she has no other life - how sad. But it sounds as if your behaviour is entirely fair and reasonable. If only she toned it down a bit, you could risk being more generous, but it sounds like if you give an inch, she will take a mile.

Both sides have to be reasonable.
I don't live my lives through my adult children. We had a very nice weekend with my eldest and his partner, but they are busy and we will see them again in May-we will phone or email when either of us feels like it-certainly not daily! Our youngest was coming to stay, but it had to be postponed and we Skyped last Thursday. I expect he will come sometime next month and it is quite possible he will come at Easter.I doubt we will hear from him this week. The middle one came a fortnight ago and we are arranging to meet him, and his partner, within the next month.
We get in touch by email or phone if we want to and they do the same. I am just as likely to phone or email their girlfriends.
I really can't see why this would change when, and if, they have children.
I wouldn't dream of turning up the moment they go into labour -insisting I stay with them and then refusing to eat the meals they cook-or giving them unasked for advice!
I think that the problems set in the moment everything becomes a duty and you don't see granny because you want to, but because you feel the you must.
There has to be give and take on both sides. If you can't manage this, and you can't manage mediation, a court order is not going to solve it.

I have to agree with veexox, I think her MIL sounds a bit of a nightmare. If DC thought I was needy and pushy I would be mortified. I was 22 when I had my first child and I did not allow my mother or MIL to take over, ok I did let her arrange the first christening. When I had my second child she was conspicuous by her absence and when it came to the christening she went on holiday. She cared so much for my second child she called him by the wrong name for most of his 16 years. We all have a right to have who we want in our lives, as they say, life's too short.

What an offensive, cruel and totally unnecessary comment absentgrandma. Two members of the COOTL "coven", myself and one other^have^been following this thread.

The never ending desire to have contact with a child and grand child who have been cut out of your life, is not obsessional behavior but I'll give you an example of what is. A couple of weeks ago me and DH on our way home from a walk, passed our ES's house, he was outside with our GC now 3, who we haven't been allowed contact with since he was 8 months old.

We stopped to look at him and because he turned and smiled at me I said 'hello' he stretched his little arm up toward the door bell and said to me 'look I can reach this' so I replied 'that's because you're a big boy'. I didn't tell him I was his granny, to him I was just a 'nice lady'. The front door opened, our d.i.l. grabbed him by the arm and said in a telling off voice "get in now". That is obsessional behavior; maybe if my d.i.l. read this thread she may see her "obsessional behavior in a different light...or maybe not".

Perhaps if you re read your post, you'll see that in a different light...or maybe not.

Veevoxyou are a voice of sanity amongst some very selfish old biddies grannies on this forum. Enjoy your children. You didn't have them to ease granny's loneliness, to provide entertainment, or to give them something to brag about at the Over-sixties Club (or the Gransnet forum.) It's just a pity that the COOTL coven don't read other threads. They might look at their obsessional behaviour in a different light... or maybe not.

Or not unless she is going to make an independent life for herself - that includes you, but also includes a lot of other things.

Do not have her moving nearer!

I think you are doing fine too veexox. Your MIL is lonely but she needs other interests. My mother is 93yrs, very disabled, has moved to a new place and yet mixes with new people and has lots of interests. Her family do a lot with her, and for her but she doesn't live her life through us.
Staying fortnightly for 5 days at a time is far too much! Now that DD is 2 yrs I should get a lot on your calendar so that it is not possible. Encourage your MIL to join things- volunteer etc. Once you have retired there are so many things to do that the main problem is them clashing.
There is no need to Skype so often! Once DD is old enough to do it herself she won't want to.

I'd be fine with them moving here if they let me and dh live our own lives she would visit me daily, and that's too much I see my own parents once a week or fortnightly that suits me fine but my parents go on activities together mil never does anything with her husband or spends time with him he's on the autistic spectrum which is the cause of her loneliness. She won't ever divorce him so invests everything in her kids and now her gd . I don't want that pressure on dd at 2 years old me and dh encourage mil and fill to do things together while they are here but she won't and just wants to join in with what me dh and dd are doing .

veexox I think you're doing fine, and you're quite right that MiL should have other interests in her life than her granddaughter.

I lived with her for 7 months we were renting a property when mil suggested we move in with her to save to buy. She promised she wouldn't interfere I didn't want to but she and dh persuaded me it seemed a good idea until I gave birth we didn't sign up to coparent to mil tried to make it that way taking over nappy changes baths etc she was hovering 4 days a week over her and me. I'd had enough so we bought a house 120 miles away this was 15 months ago mil started staying fortnightly for 5 days at a time wouldn't eat the food I cooked taking over childrearing and trying to arrange my house h9w she thought it should be. dd is 2 years old so cannot Skype gm I have to sit and hold the phone while gm talks to her then I have to follow dd around with said phone. She is lonely but getting 100% of your emotional needs out of a toddler is not healthy. Loving grandchildren dearly is fine but having said grandchild as the only thing in your life is not.

Probably because at 22, these days, you are still very self centred and have a lot of growing up to do. It's not all the fault of these youngsters, but out society that gives them such a sense of entitlement, yet insulates many of them from reality.

WTF can't younger people give others a little thought these days? Is it insecurity in their own relationships?

Well, what's the point in discussing it then? A granny living 120 miles away is a different thing altogether. So, you object to her moving close to you? Is she thinking next door? Surely you are able to set some ground rules without being hurtful. It would probably improve her life no end if she were closer to you all. Or not.

Stansgran you azre not an 'odd bod'. I feel the same. I love it when DD stays here with the GSs. (rather than just leaving them)

I thought Grandmother lives 120 miles away?

veexox You also mention the fact that you lived under her roof for a while. Did she help you out in a time of need?

If a child can do the skypeing herself, then I can't see any harm in doing it daily, so long as that is what the child is happy with. She shouldn't, of course, be made to feel under any obligation.

veexox You say she is lonely and that she adores grandaughter, and grandaughter eases her loneliness. So what do you do? You ration her time with her. Do you really think a child can be harmed by being loved, even by being the centre of someone's universe? I don't. I think it would be lovely for grandaughter.

Sometimes it isn't about whats best for the children for gps and parents it's what is best for themselves, at times when MIL has gone too far i have thought about cutting her out in moments of anger but that isn't fair on my dd so we have this arrangement so I stay sane there is peace and dd gets to spend time with her GM. I think some GP's think GP's rights mean unlimited access to the kids whenever they want it doesn't work like that a child isn't a toy or a dog they have routines. GP's are a loving addition to a family but I balk at being ordered by the law how often my children should see their gp's some parents are out of order and mean stopping loving gp's from having any contact IMO that is heartbreaking. But the law shouldn't enable those gp's who have trouble keeping boundaries and believing they have the divine right to be involved 24/7 in parenting.

I think that Veevox is very fair given the circumstances.

I can't see how the legal right to see them gets you the relationship you want. It means duty visits done under resentment.
Mediation is the way to go- but sadly, as YogaGirl shows, you can't mediate with a party who don't want to mediate.

As Veevox says...... why do you despair Jinglebells? Explain please.