ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Ankers "Are there books and sites advocating this type of thing?"

Cutting abusers off from AC and GC? YES, many sites and books.

But I have now got the impression, that any minor fallout can result in a CO.

The other point is, a parent's job is not just to protect them. It is far more varied a role than that.

I think you have overdosed on books and websites about it all.

If you were happy with your decision, why do you need to keep looking at and reading it all?

Is it to "help" others to CO?
Or to try your hardest to justify it to yourself?

Here's another articulate response.

Yes a lot of books and DWIL and AITF I'll post a link if you'd like to have a look.

Most people don't CO over something trivial and when they do CO someone it is to protect themselves from that person. Why would a sane person let someone they have had to exclude from their lives to protect themselves from their behaviour have access to their vulnerable children.

A parent who COs someone and then lets that person have access to their children is not protecting their children, they are failing in their primary duty as a parent, taking care of their children's wellbeing.

Ultimately the argument needs to be turned round. It is not the COer who needs to justify themselves or go out of their way to enable the COe's access to their children, it is the COe's responsibility to look at their own behaviour and modify it so they are no longer a danger and can be safely included in everyone's lives. As most of the people we see who get CO'd clearly have some kind of disorder that means they refuse to see that anything they do could be wrong this never happens they just play the pooor me card, never change and expect the world to revolve around them.

No respectful relationship with the parents = no relationship at all with their children.

Are there books and sites advocating this type of thing?

It does harm others by the way. Many others.

No love, no compassion, no respect, no compromise, no an awful lot of things.

That sort of person can lead a very lonely life.

And of course the kids could soon find anything they like to deem their parents toxic.

Gross.

I feel sorry for the children.

It is all about control. Yuk.

I posted on the USA BC why a CO person shouldn't be allowed around The children and this is one of the best responses.

Once any of us have either, reached the age of 18 AND moved out, OR had children and became heads of households of our own, or BOTH, we are all adults. So....

As adults, we get to have our own way, in our own lives, as long as we don't harm others. Which means: we get to determine who we keep in our lives, and who we don't HAVE to talk to anymore.

So if a person has warranted CO from somebody, that means the person who made that choice to rid themselves of "you," has every reason to do so. Whether it's because you are BSC or because you wear an inordinate amount of neon green - it doesn't matter. Because the person from whom you are CO chose to CO you.

Now, Minor children are inherently a package-deal with their guardian(s). If an adult with children CO you - then you are automatically CO from their kids. Should have thought of that before you filled your closet with neon-green.

As the CO party - YOU do not get a say in the choices of the party that CO you. So whining about why doesn't matter. If you want access to the children, you need to repair the damage with the adult. If that means filming your bonfire of neon-green clothing and emailing them the video, then you suck it up and do it. Or you gracefully accept that you don't get to make contact with the children.

There is no negotiation, and it seems that the thread you are following has CO parties in it who appear to presume they have a say. They don't.

No good could come from a child seeing their parents put down or treated like a child, themselves

Oh yes it can. The child can see how the parent deals with it, and learn from that.

I have come to the conclusion though, that for whatever reason, the parent does not know how to do that it seems. And therefore cannot pass it on to their child either.

No, we can't always help it if kids hear abusive words from other kids. But we don't have to bring such behavior into their lives.

A short, supervised visit with a "toxic" gp once a month? Maybe. I think it depends on what one means by "toxic." If they're calling someone "toxic" just because they're annoying, then no harm in the kids seeing them occasionally. But if they really are toxic - saying abusive things, getting in little "digs," acting as if they're ac is really "still a child," etc. - then it's probably better for the ac, cil and gc to keep them away as much as possible. No good could come from a child seeing their parents put down or treated like a child, themselves.

Bibbity

Spot on.

Yes they've may hear it from their peers but there is nothing we can do about that.
But we can do something about the toxic adults. And if you can you should.

Hmm I could have added that old favourite "You have to toughen up......"

Ankers

Why should a parent have to worry about the words that fall from their parents lips?

Why should and AC have to worry about smoke, drinking, swearing, yelling? It's all toxic.

There is enough toxicity in the world without exposing precious children.

As you say, they may hear it anyway, but not from people who profess to like them.

I agree that those types of comments can happen.

As they can and will to the children from other people too.

But the children are not being given the tools by the parent to handle such comments.

Jayanna9040 "With regard to GP meeting up with GC for short supervised periods, can I say that just one abusive remark can cut very deep eg "You need to lose some weight" "There's something wrong with boys who don't like sport" even "Get up and stop crying you pansy". It's said in a moment, can't be foreseen and prevented and has done the same damage as was done to the AC."

Exactly the sort horrible talk that can occur.

Parents are better served keeping their children away from such toxicity with a CO.

With regard to GP meeting up with GC for short supervised periods, can I say that just one abusive remark can cut very deep eg "You need to lose some weight" "There's something wrong with boys who don't like sport" even "Get up and stop crying you pansy". It's said in a moment, can't be foreseen and prevented and has done the same damage as was done to the AC.

Bibbity "Only the parent (GP) and they're wants (not even needs) matter."

Bippity, Therein is a ludicrous thought that seems prevalent in this post. When given any thought, GPs raised their children as they wished, AC are entitled the same luxury.

Bibbity "I couldn't disagree more. Why should and AC suffer because of someone they hate?"

I keep going back to all who were abused as children by spanking or other abusive tactics. Why would abuse survivors want abusers in their childrens lives?

Abuse is a common reason for GPs finding themselves CO.

The conflict and distress it will create in the hosiehold would have such a radical effect on the child.
So what you're saying is that the AC doesn't matter, their partner doesn't matter. The children don't matter.

Only the parent and they're wants (not even needs) matter.

Bibbity "I couldn't disagree more. Why should and AC suffer because of someone they hate?"

Exactly Making AC miserable has nothing to do with "decency" and everything to do with wanting what one wants, when one wants it, for selfish reasons

I couldn't disagree more. Why should and AC suffer because of someone they hate?

Ankers "as celebgran says, there is human decency."

"In most cases, I really think that all parties, which includes the child, would benefit from a few minutes a month, fully supervised, with the person that was cut off because they are "toxic"."

And there are many who wouldn't define "decency" as including toxicity in their life.

How would a few minutes a month, which is never what would happen - would stretch to an hour at least, be better than CO for the AC who hates toxic behaviour?

How could having a distressed parent be better for a GC?

I keep thinking about something celebgran said upthread last night about human decency.

Yes, someone who has chosen to shut someone out of their lives may feel happy[somehow I doubt they are completely happy at all, but I dont know for sure], but as celebgran says, there is human decency.

In most cases, I really think that all parties, which includes the child, would benefit from a few minutes a month, fully supervised, with the person that was cut off because they are "toxic".

Fairydoll2030 "We have had a peaceful existence for almost 2 years. I don't know that I want to risk that."

Life doesn't get any better than what you have, lucky you!