to think Government should say how it will save £12billion on welfare?

Very interesting to read all the comments re cutbacks in the NHS. I got the opposite impression when i posted about that not so long ago! Interesting also to read that the current gov has lumped pensions and benefits into the welfare category. That tells me the cuts will be across the board. Everyone who pays taxes has contributed to the social/health/educational/etc etc infrastructures. We have different needs at different times in our lives. Those who are lucky {altho they may not think it's due to luck}enuf not to use whatever service, are never the less benefitting from the stable society that these infrastructures maintain.

Not unrestricted - I meant unreconstituted - not that it matters

I get irritated by the labelling of anyone with left wing views as a Lwbour supporter. DJ frequently points this out. I'm pretty left of centre (.I know this is somewhat of a shock) and have voted Labour in the past but in recent years ( last 10 or so) have usually voted LibDem at local level - because they really do get things done and there's no Laboyr base here anyway. At General elections , although my vote is worth nothing in a rock solid seat, I have voted Green in the last two. I could write a book on what was wrong with New Labour and since and absolutely agree that the seeds of many policies I disagree with with this a government were planted by TB such as zero hour contracts, academies, role of private sector in NHS etc. But I could write several books on what is wrong with the Conservatives. I'm just really an unrestricted old style leftie and I'm not going to chsnge now. . I know the sort of world I would like will never happen but am sad at the increasingly divisive nature of our society and the, 'race to the bottom' mentality of so much debate and the lack of compassion and proportion in response to media driven shock horror stories. The whole NS story is a microcosm of what is wrong - in fact I was getting so fed up of the EM bashing based on his looks etc that I was considering voting for him but after the Labour Perty response to the memo, I hit that on the head. Aren't we all tired of discussions of EM's looks, NS's hair etc? I also agree that it is probably more likely that those GNs with left wing views come into the debates robustly - maybe it's because we feel it more strongly - I don't know bu also with me I'm so often irritated by the level of debate in the mostly right wing media that i need to put the other side strongly on here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that - I do think that if we want to debate politics we should all be prepared to be robust and defend our position - POGs and DJ are good examples of that and I respect them for fighting their respective corners. Those of you who find it all a bit too much are IMO bring a bit wimpish

https://clivepeedellnha.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/how-the-nhs-is-being-privatised/

A very interesting interview with Clive Peedell of the NHA party. For those who think that the NHA is a single issue party.
But I would say that, wouldn't I?

I think, Elegran, that you will find this is a political thread that you have just posted on!

If you feel obligated to vote, soon, just go and spoil your vote.
Tell them why you cannot vote for anyone on the paper.

I also feel obliged to vote and will do so, but without any real enthusiasm for the candidate or party.

I decided long ago not to bother posting on political threads. I am so glad I have held to that.

Eloethan, I presume your comment 'I find it irritating when people who imply that they are apolitical always seem to rush to the defence of the Conservative Party when it is criticised' was aimed at me?

Why shouldn't I defend the Conservative Party if and when I see fit? I'd probably defend the Labour party if it was being vilified, but of course it never is!

But soontobe, do you see UKIP as a party between Tory and labour ?

Obligated to vote for a party whose policies you don't like!

If there are no parties that you feel have got sufficient policies in tune with your views that you feel it right to vote for them, then you have no choice but not to vote.

So I feel obligated.

But lots of people, especially women, say that women got us the vote, so we should use it, no matter what.

If you don't like 'em, then don't vote for 'em. Simple.

Better to not vote (never thought I would hear myself say that).

At the moment, I am probably still stuck on UKIP. Which is a bit of a sorry state of affairs. It isnt so much a protest vote, as, we have had the other two in power, and I dont fancy being partly responsible for either of them having the power again right now.
I dont even particularly like UKIP.

If there was a party somewhere in between Labour and Tories, I would probably vote for it. Repeatedly.

I fear the idea of reducing the welfare budget because it runs the risk of increasing the division between rich and poor. This is an unhealthy and potentially dangerous position for a society to be in. It is fine for politicians and strategists to say that a strong economy will eventually filter down to the poorest, but if you are one of those people that is an extraordinarily bitter pill to swallow.

If there were a party that would seek to redress that division via redistribution of wealth and opportunities in the education system; and a party that sought to make sure that only one parent need work in order to support their family, they would get my vote. I am still looking for that party.

I deliberately used the 'Two Kitchens' because although it was all over the media at the time, not a hint of it on here! It was just to make my point that EM seems untouchable and at least it's recent - that quote of yours goes back to 2009, Anniebach.

So funny, Ed 'two kitchens 'Milliband v Dave 'I am not sure how many houses I own' Cammeron

POGS Why bring in narcissism at all then? Saying that something is indicative of narcissistic behaviour but then adding words to the effect of "but I'm not aiming that remark at you" is not very convincing.

Eloethan

You asked me a direct question, I gave you a reply, you respond by giving a reply that accuses me of being confrontational and you quote part of my post but conveniently leave out a part that puts my comment into context.

I said :-

"I speak as I find, nothing more, nothing less. I cannot please posters by being sycophantic over left wing policies and I don't think you would expect nor want me to, it's pretty narcissistic to expect all GN's to follow the same thought as OURSELVES!(omission) - AND I DON'T PUT YOU DOWN AS BEING THAT SORT OF POSTER." That is not a personal attack nor confrontational it is a generalisation, contextualised comment, unless you want it to be confrontational and by hell there is an appetite by some to want confrontation.

My last sentence in the previous post seems rather misguided too having read your response.

I would like to say this to those who continually challenge my opinion, If you don't like having posters who can or will challenge what you post, then 'IMPROVE YOUR ARGUEMENT' .

A point in question:-

If you 'initiate' a question of a personal nature to a poster and they give you a reply that doesn't suit your remit is it not better to show you have the temerity to accept their reply even if you don't agree with them or don't bother in the first place.

DJ

I agree that GN is favoured by those who don't vote Conservative but those who possibly do probably can't be assed to join in the forum when there is a will to detract from any post that raises valid points but attracts a barage of ill will . Boredom sets in!

I note there was no appetite to answer the question of hypocrisy over zero hours, NHS privatisation and the top rate of tax, I would have thought it more productive to respond to those issues in defence of Labour rather than simply shoot the messenger but I guess it's whatever pleases.

I can think of quite a few who criticise the Labour party. You know who you are. But as Eloethan says, they usually imply they are apolitical.
Is that because they do not want to admit to being Conservative?

Ana POGS said to me I cannot please posters by being sycophantic over left wing policies and I don't think you would want nor expect me to, it's pretty narcissistic to expect all GN's to follow the same thought as ourselves.

That seems fairly confrontational to me, particularly the use of the word "narcissistic" ("having an excessive interest in or admiration of oneself - and one's physical appearance") - ??!

I feel I am very above board about my left wing views and my belief that the Labour Party is preferable to the Conservatives. However, I have on several occasions criticised Labour.

I find it irritating when people who imply that they are apolitical always seem to rush to the defence of the Conservative Party when it is criticised. Your comment that "every opportunity is taken to ridicule Cameron, Farage & Co. but Ed "Two Kitchens" Miliband seems to be beyond criticism ..." - actually contains the sort of sneer of which you complain. A quick look through the politics threads will demonstrate that this type of ridicule is by no means exclusively aimed at Conservative politicians.

I've only ever occasionally attempted to counter criticism of the Conservative party with criticism of the Labour party because no one else (apart from POGS) seems willing or able to do so.

I think we are pretty heavily outnumbered, durhamjen, so it's unlikely anyone's going to be put off by our attempts to bring some balance into the equation.

Both you and POGS are quite good at Labour-bashing, ana. Why is it only the Tory bashers that put people off?