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to think Government should say how it will save £12billion on welfare?

(130 Posts)
MamaCaz Thu 19-Mar-15 09:14:32

The Government has said that it plans to save a further £12 billion on the welfare bill, and that this will be from working-age claimants.
However, they either won't or can't say how they plan to do this. Now, given that two out of every three pounds of the total welfare spend goes to pensioners, how exactly can they do that without hitting pensioners?

Am I being sceptical / unreasonable in thinking that they must be planning to further raise the state pension age during the next parliament?
If what I found with Google is correct, approximately 600 000 people reach 65 each year, so a huge saving could be made there by withholding their state pensions for another year. I don't know exactly how much but if any other Gransnetters do, then please let me know.

I don't see how else they can do it without hitting pensioners.

whitewave Thu 19-Mar-15 10:12:06

I am unsure how they will do it at all. Seems next to impossible to me bearing in mind that this 30bn (12bn identified for welfare cuts and the rest for cuts to public services) is ON TOP of what is already planned.

So all low paid employed, unemployed, disabled, those that can't afford private health insurance, public sector workers, sure start centres, those in education, pensioners on benefits and the elderly who need care etc etc Be afraid, be very afraid!!

vampirequeen Thu 19-Mar-15 15:42:27

I am very scared by this.

Mishap Thu 19-Mar-15 16:22:00

This government has got the economy a bit better on track, but for my money it has been at to high a price in terms of the health service and the welfare state.

I am at a loss to understand how we can have what Osborne described as a "surplus" when we have trillions of pounds worth of debt.

My incomprehension is why I am so against referenda - one of the subjects I studied at uni included economics, and I still don't understand it. What is the use of asking everyone if they think we should e.g. remain in the EU when so few people are likely to understand the economic implications?

I am afraid that governments and parties make all sorts of promises they cannot keep in the run-up to an election.

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 19-Mar-15 17:01:50

That is how they will do it. Moving the goalposts regarding pension age. So unfair.

JessM Thu 19-Mar-15 17:41:18

I think changes to pension ages have been set for the time being.
The current government have been saying throughout this parliament that they were going to save lots of money on benefits but in fact they have struggled.

MamaCaz Thu 19-Mar-15 19:02:43

JessM: I don't know how these things work, but if it is at all possible for them to bring forward the changes in state pension age, then I reckon they will. I really can't think of any other way in which they could bring about a £12 billion saving on welfare without targeting pensioners (and as Whitewave points out, that's on top of the already-planned cuts). It's not as if they have managed to cut wefare spending this term of office as they said they would, despite all their "reforms".

Or perhaps they know that it can't be done but aren't bothered because it's such a huge vote winner, and their desire to stay in office far outweighs any other considerations?

Whatever the truth, I think it's essential that they are put under pressure to say how/where they intend to make these huge cuts before the election.

JessM Fri 20-Mar-15 06:52:25

The BBC analyst said they might have to remove child benefit - just get rid of it.

vampirequeen Fri 20-Mar-15 12:03:47

They'll harass people like me even further until we can't stand the stress anymore and kill ourselves. That will cut the benefits budget.

J52 Fri 20-Mar-15 13:01:31

They could try not wasting money on useless computer programmes. Re: farmers trying to use the farming subsidies web site. Only allows then to log on, so now they are going back to paper versions!

Apparently cost millions! X

whitewave Fri 20-Mar-15 17:00:13

We have a green council here and I have just received the annual rate bill (gone up £2 per month) but what is interesting is the reduction in government grant year on year so there has already been a reduction of £77m during the past 4 years. with the government grant being £103m year 14/15. By 19/20 this will have reduced to £39m!!! So we have a choice of no public services worth a candle or a huge hike in rates. Presumably our tax won't have gone down to reflect this. We really are regressing to the 30's. I hope and pray that neither my husband or myself need care of any sort as we ain't going to get it. As for libraries, police, fire service, street care, nursery care etc - good grief I dread to think.

whitewave Fri 20-Mar-15 17:14:09

I remember Galbraith an American economist quoting "Private wealth and public squalor" and it seems to me likely to become very apt if we continue on the road we are travelling.

apricot Fri 20-Mar-15 19:01:59

They will do it by ruthlessly shaving off every single bit of the Welfare State, which they hate because it works by taking from the rich to give to the poor.
If you're old, disabled, mentally or physically ill or the parents of someone who is, if you're in a zero-hours or minimum wage job and can't afford childcare, if you've lost your job or home or partner, if you're skint and depressed and hopeless - in every one of these circumstances the government will take and take again in order that the rich may stay rich and not give a shit.

rosesarered Fri 20-Mar-15 22:57:23

Seems to me that the old are actually doing alright, as the state pension went up in last Septembers budget.

Iam64 Sat 21-Mar-15 08:14:12

rosesarered, that's the argument on mumsnet, that the "old are actually doing alright".

The old age pension isn't a benefit, it's something the majority of us have paid into throughout long working lives.

This government has been clever at presenting itself as supporting sure start centres (as one example). The reality is that many have closed and others are making staff redundant in order to remain open. The same can be said about the NHS and other public services - cuts and more cuts.

JessM Sat 21-Mar-15 08:42:54

Trouble is that journalists and many others lump together everyone over 60 and generalise. A proportion of them own several properties and have several holidays a year. But not the majority.
It is also true that the young have suffered, with average incomes for those in work falling by 7%.
Things are looking far from rosy if you are a frail older person with many needs and no family at hand to care for you. (Unless you are wealthy - which is of course not the case for the majority)
The social care budget has already been cut and will be cut more. There is a grandiose scheme to merge health and social care for this group. A few pilot schemes have been announced (better than a national roll out!). You would have to leave these to run for several years before doing proper evaluation. Meanwhile if the tories get in they will cut much more deeply into local authority grants and where does social care funding come from? The competing areas for expenditure are principally social work for the young (high profile) and schools, which tend to have funding levels ring fenced by national formulae.

vampirequeen Sat 21-Mar-15 09:04:54

The journalists do the same with all groups on benefits. Not all people who claim ESA and DLA are fiddling and pretending to be ill. Not all people claiming JSA are shiftless and workshy. It just suits the gov and sections of the media to suggest they are.

whitewave Sat 21-Mar-15 09:42:43

I think a lot of nonsense is talked about the old age pension. It has long been recognized over decades that the pension has not kept up with anything comparable. Look at the German, French and Dutch and see how much their OAP's get - ours is pathetic, and yet our GDP has been/ is similar.

durhamjen Sat 21-Mar-15 12:36:04

The pension did not go up last September. It was announced in the budget, and it only ever goes up in April, along with all other "benefits".
Have just received notification, and my basic pension has gone up just over £2 per week. My council tax has taken half of that.

As whitewave says, we are nowhere near comparable with any other European country. Withdrawing from Europe will mean the government need take even less notice of comparisons.

soontobe Sat 21-Mar-15 12:40:54

Withdrawing from Europe will mean that the country would have more money. Year on year.
What it spends it on, or uses to pay down debt is debatable.

whitewave Sat 21-Mar-15 12:45:06

Why will we have more money soon?

soontobe Sat 21-Mar-15 14:25:26

Because we wont have to pay them xbillion a year.

Elegran Sat 21-Mar-15 14:43:17

We won't get any subsidies from them either, so it might all cancel out.

soontobe Sat 21-Mar-15 14:45:41

And think how many jollies it cuts out!

Mishap Sat 21-Mar-15 14:54:36

The question posed by the original post was put to the tory rep on Any Questions this afternoon and he burbled and drivelled and refused to be pinned down on the question. I think we might reasonably assume they do not know the answer!