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AIBU

AIBU expecting cyclists to use the cycle tracks?

(222 Posts)
NanSue Thu 03-Sept-15 22:49:36

I was driving to my Mum's this afternoon about 3 miles from where I live. I have to use a narrowish long road for the first mile or so on which there is a perfectly good cycle track, halfway down was a man riding a racing bike at a fair old speed on the road right next to the cycle track in his Lycra shorts. As I was about to overtake him he had a bit of a wobble and I'm still not sure how I managed to avoid him and it really shook me. It seems to be a regular occurrence that these "serious" cyclists (I say serious because it's always the ones in the cycling shorts etc.,) always ride on the road. Does anyone have any idea what they have against the cycle tracks?? I am NOT anti cyclist, I ride a bike myself from time to time, but always on the track wherever possible.

crun Sat 12-Sept-15 13:35:50

It was only an example, I wasn't suggesting that there are three killed in every car crash, I was just trying to demonstrate the effect of increased deaths offsetting fewer accidents.

rosesarered Sat 12-Sept-15 13:46:58

Cyclists have every right to be on the road as anyone else, but that means they can do the same dangerous things as well at times. I treat them with way more caution than cars though, not least because they can be more easily injured, and prefer the slow cyclists, who I can pass when it's safe, to the lycra clad ones hunched over and going like the clappers who seem to put on an extrea turn of speed when they are being overtaken.

crun Sat 12-Sept-15 14:28:36

The Institute of Advanced Motorists are also endorsing Franklin's advice too, I see:

www.iam.org.uk/cyclists/insight-cyclists

I haven't read it, but it reportedly contains the same warnings as Cyclrecraft about the hazards of using cycle paths.

NfkDumpling Sat 12-Sept-15 22:26:33

Roses [like]

Penstemmon Sat 12-Sept-15 23:06:29

I am very aware, as a former regular cyclist, that Cycle Lanes have a habit of running out/ being parked on etc. so it sometimes feels safer to avoid using them. However in one area I know well there is a raised kerb separating the cycle lane from the road so it is clear, safer and fast and I get annoyed when that lane is ignored and the already narrowed road made even narrower by cyclists not using a good lane!
Cyclists are as mixed a bunch as drivers in terms of their road awareness and some can be just as stupid and thoughtless as some drivers. (& pedestrians!)

crun Sun 13-Sept-15 00:05:56

"there is a raised kerb separating the cycle lane from the road so it is clear, safer and fast and I get annoyed when that lane is ignored "

No, these are the paths that are more dangerous, here's a short paper by John Franklin explaining why. For a fuller explanation, read Cyclecraft.

Penstemmon Sun 13-Sept-15 19:05:30

I felt safer when I used it!

Alygran Sun 13-Sept-15 19:33:57

Yesterday DD was taking DGS to a party in the car. She slowed ready to stop at the busy junction at the end of her road. Completely out of the blue a cyclist came from the main road's pavement on her left and straight into the road and into the side of her car, bouncing across the bonnet and into the main road. Teenager, no helmet, iPhone ear things in. Police and ambulance called. Fortunately teenager not hurt nor bike damaged. Car with over £300 worth of damage. DD left terribly shaken and DGS extremely upset. Not all the morons are in a car.

annodomini Sun 13-Sept-15 20:00:06

Not all the morons are on wheels. The narrowest shave DS has had, cycling in London was when a pedestrian, without looking, stepped off the pavement into his path. DS swerved, fell off and very narrowly avoided the wheels of a truck.

crun Sun 13-Sept-15 20:09:49

Feeling safer and being safer are not necessarily the same thing, Pen

Aly people trade anecdotes on threads like these forevermore, the bottom line is that there are good road users and bad road users, and there are some of each among both cyclists and drivers. As I mentioned above, the TRL statistics show motorists at fault more often than cyclists though.

There was £280 worth of damage when I went over the bonnet of the car that pulled out in front of me 10 years ago.

thatbags Sun 13-Sept-15 20:16:09

Worth mentioning here that all traffic on the main road, which includes pedestrians and cyclists on pavements, have right of way at give way or stop junctions. A lot of care drivers don't seem to know that and pedestrians tend not to chance being knocked down by a car whose driver thinks s/he has right of way.

thatbags Sun 13-Sept-15 20:16:31

car not care

Ana Sun 13-Sept-15 20:22:33

Sorry, thatbags, I don't understand that. If everyone has right of way how is the traffic to progress? Think I'm being thick here...

Penstemmon Mon 14-Sept-15 17:35:50

crun I cannot find anywhere to read the item you referred to so unaware of what makes them additionally hazardous?

TRL statistics are presumably based on actual accidents. Some car drivers might argue that their vigilance re cyclists has avoided higher numbers of potential collisions where cyclists have taken inappropriate risks. I have seen , both as a pedestrian, passenger and driver, some stupid actions by cyclists which put them and other road users at risk of harm. The only collision I have been in was when I was knocked over by a cyclist on a footpathhmm

I accept that there are aggressive and stupid car/truck drivers but really everyone needs to take greater care.

crun Mon 14-Sept-15 18:34:15

What is it you couldn't find pen, the link to Cyclecraft seems to work.

www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclecraft-complete-enjoyable-cycling-children/dp/0117082430/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441379389&sr=8-1&keywords=franklin+cyclecraft&tag=gransnet

It requires diagrams to explain cycle paths in more detail, which is why I keep suggesting that people read Cyclecraft.

What makes you think that motorists are the only ones who are vigilant, and cyclists the only ones who take risks? This is just the sort of prejudice that Walker was referring to. Here's a vigilant cyclist, and a stupid motorist.

Walker's research wasn't showing much sign of motorists being charitable or vigilant, was it? In the scenario with the polite request, motorists were deliberately passing too close out of spite. The only scenario which improved their behaviour was the one with a credible risk of prosecution.

Penstemmon Mon 14-Sept-15 18:49:06

I got the link to the book but would have to buy it ..I thought there may be an on-line article. I will look in the library tomorrow.

CrunI am not pro or anti any road user but I am wary of 'statistics' of any sort!

I have given up cycling because I no longer feel safe due to the volume of motorised traffic but I am not blind to the foolishness of more than a few cyclists: jumping lights, weaving in and out of lanes, no lights, not using a mirror, poor signals etc. which are the same faults many drivers are guilty of.

vodka Tue 22-Sept-15 07:50:57

Doesn't the highway code say that slow moving vehicles should pull over so as not to hold up traffic flow?

Anya Tue 22-Sept-15 08:57:30

169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

Generally held to apply to large vehicles like tractors. Bicycles are not driven, they are ridden.

vodka Tue 22-Sept-15 09:23:28

Semantics. They need to pull over, especially when travelling in packs. It's plain rude.

Anya Tue 22-Sept-15 10:02:45

Semantics? Rubbish!

Get over it.

Firstly, the majority of cyclists you meet are solo.

Secondly, you'll rarely see cyclists in 'packs' (note the emotive language...) except on club runs which are almost invariably on a Sunday.

But don't let me interrupt your 'drivers are king of the road' and 'everybody else should get out of our way' mental thought processes as I know there's no way you will ever see it from another's point of view.

vodka Tue 22-Sept-15 10:17:53

I know there's no way you will ever see it from another's point of view

Right back atcha.

NfkDumpling Tue 22-Sept-15 10:43:19

I wish Anya! Around here there are 'packs' out practicing all week. It gets worse when there's been a big race through as everyone wants to ride bits of the same route - including through the town, market day or not.

Actually I did have an unusual experience last week. I came up behind four riders, in matching gear, riding in line. As I slowed behind them the back two dropped back two so I was able to overtake two and then two easily. We even exchanged a cheery wave! If only it was always thus!

Anya Tue 22-Sept-15 17:38:50

Throwing your toys out of the pram vodka grin

Anya Tue 22-Sept-15 17:43:45

I'm very surprised by that Nfk as (as a car driver) I've only ever encountered them on a Sunday - and not every Sunday either. My experiences of cycling in this country and in France are very different. In France I had to cycle to work along a busy main road and was amazed at the courtesy given to cyclists by drivers.

You see as a driver and a cyclist I see things from both points of view.

Candelle Tue 22-Sept-15 18:39:15

I cycle and drive and think that my motoring experience gives me an added dimension that a non-driving cyclist may not have, appreciating speed of other vehicle etc.

When I began cycling again, some ten years ago, I took lessons (offered by my local authority - and often free of charge if anyone else should be interested) and was amazed at how I was taught to cycle in the middle of a single-carriageway road. I felt extremely vulnerable and ..... guilty, as following cars obviously had to pull out to overtake me as I cycled at a speed of perhaps 8-10mph. I would have preferred to creep along at the side of the road but if was emphasised that this was far more dangerous, despite the ire of passing motorists and boy, is there ire!

I returned from a cycling holiday in Belgium a few days ago where there is a different mindset on the part of the motorist. All towns and cities have designated, separated cycle paths. These are well used with whole generations of families using them, all through the week, at all times of day and night. I felt soooo safe and happy, knowing that I was unlikely to be squished by anything.

Outside of towns, the pavement is shared between cyclists and pedestrians. There is often a different colour of the tarmac and cyclists use one side and pedestrians the other - there is no barrier between the two sides of the path and Cyclists passed pedestrians with ease, often using a ding of their bell to warn their approach. Why cannot this system be used in Britain? It would give cyclists an opportunity not to have to worry about dying - which I do every time I ride (just one moment of lost concentration by a motorist, perhaps on a mobile 'phone and it's curtains for me). Pedestrians seemed happy with the situation too, never looking angry at being overtaken by a cyclist.

Never did I encounter any aggression from motorists whilst being on the road (on the rare occasions where there was no pathway etc.). In fact, they all defer to cyclists at junctions etc. It seems to me that Belgians have another mindset to us. They have been educated that there is not a car v cycle war and both manage perfectly well.

Obviously, Belgium has spent money on the infrastructure of these paths but I wonder if they also gain long-term in lower associated health costs for their population, particularly the elderly. The number of elderly men out cycling was interesting for us, as these gentlemen obviously had the health to be able to cycle! I didn't see any motorised scooters, only the elderly in cars or on cycles.

Incidentally, there are also cycle direction signs to nearby towns. All in all, it was just amazing.

I won't go into detail of the number of near-misses with cars had here (and I am a middle-aged, non-lycra clad, sensible, cautious cyclist, honestly!) or the insults and swear words chucked at me for riding slower than a car can drive.

Ideally (ho hum) the country needs to spend on better pavement/road layouts to the advantage of both motorists and cyclists. The benefit in better health would carry on for generations.

Ok, I've digressed a little but in answer to the original poster's question, no it isn't unreasonable - with a few qualifiers: that a) the cycle lane is in good condition, i.e no road debris; b) made with care so that lethal drain covers are set in the road's surface correctly; c) that it is wide enough to cycle safely on, some are not; d) that cars do not park on them - near us are main roads where we have to weave in and out of cycle lanes round parked cars and each time we pull out is a potentially dangerous moment. Dangerous could mean deadly.

Perhaps one day we could all use our roads safely - together...