Hijab

Yes. Control of women.

Young orthodox Jewish women still wear wigs. Saw a whole synagogue trip at Alexandra Palace last week and all the young mums had wigs on.

When women are not able to make choices about what they wear/ do because it is dictated by men either via religion or otherwise I personally do no agree with it and have campaigned against it.

However I have worked with very many feisty young Muslim women who do wear a hijab. They tell me it is by choice and judging by the rest of their choices I can't imagine these particular women being 'forced' to do things they do not want to. However there are women who are forced to behave in certain ways and that cuts across all social strata/ religions/non-religions.

The Western world is focussed on Islam because politically it is expedient to and of course it is easier to see male dominance manipulated and used by some men in that religion but do not let it blind us from the similar male dominance in western culture..it maybe less obvious but it still exists.

P.S I think that Nadiyah won GBBO on merit and personality! She clearly demonstrated, as a British Bangladeshi woman, that, surprise , surprise she had the same hopes, fears, dreams, troubles etc. that any other young 30 something parent has. Her marriage and family appeared as normal and loving as an advertisers dream! That is what annoyed all those, DM included, now trying to undermine her win! She has clearly broken their portrayal of subjugated Muslim women and 'typical' Muslim family life and shown it is 'normal'!

I wasn't going to add my two penneth but some posts are irresistable.

Nadiya was a worthy winner as we all agree. Nadiya wore a hijab .

The OP did not appear to me to be trying to 'stir' feelings about the wearing of the hijab but merely reflected a personal view on wearing the hijab and the OP poster made this clear.

What then develops is the usual discussion on the wearing of the hijab which is either a reasoned discussion or the constant need to defend at all costs the wearer. The latter fails to accept the reasoned discussion as a general rule and the thread gets overheated.

Everybody has valid points but threads become tainted time and time again by some who dish out the same old tired rhetoric of accusations of xenophobic behaviour when no display of xenophobia has been shown.

I don't understand the comments re the DM either. I never noticed anything negative being spoken of with regards to Nadiya . It just seems to me commenting about the Daily Mail is a tool used repeatedly by some to try and prove a point , whether or not it's content was even read. How odd.

I have read back through some DM articles to see if there were any negative comments and I can't find a single one. Amanda Platell wrote an article voicing concerns about Nadiya's possible future celebrity status and the effect it might have on her family life but there's nothing wrong with that.

I also cannot understand why some GN posters actually apologise for posting a link to a DM article even though it's relevant to the thread.

Merlotgran. Don't you? It's almost the devils Spawn to some GNs .

I skim through the DM every morning because its free. Mainly it's full of scandal and scaremongering with some decent articles. However, the medical section is pretty good and thanks to one article on there, my son's eyesight is being saved/ improved at the moment.
So I make no apology for continuing to 'read' it.

Is there such a thing as a perfect newspaper?

Well within my lifetime it was considered scandalous to turn up to church on a Sunday morning without a hat. As children we wore sun bonnets in summer and for winter I had a woollen coat + a matching hat with a drawstring which rubbed me raw under the chin.

It is still the 'done thing' to wear a hat (or at least a fascinator) for weddings, funerals, remembrance parades etc. Women keep their hats on indoors, men take them off. Tradition? Culture? Religion? I don't think we have any firm ground from which to criticise anyone's right to cover their head or otherwise.

Personally, I never wear a hat, as no matter the style I just look daft. I did acquire a hat to go to the Royal Garden Party but simply carried it all day - apart from one photograph in which I look like a small mushroom.

Nope.

I was answering Lona.

No, there is no perfect newspaper but some do peddle the scandal more than others! However, they obviously know their target market and presumably do well out of it. Scandal sheets have always been around and my guess is that they will continue to be around because lots of people like to read them and, as Lona says, some of them do contain good stuff alongside the bad. Even I (putting my halo straight) quite like to read Hello magazine in the hairdressers, even though I don't recognise most of the names and certainly would not buy it for myself. It's just human nature, I guess.

Granny23 - do you have a pic of yourself looking like a small mushroom? I don't do hats, either.

I haven't any strong feelings about the hijab, but I do know quite a bit about orthodox Jewish women wearing wigs.
When we first became "religious" we went to live in an orthodox community, where women were expected to cover their hair. It was the thing I hated most about living there, otherwise it was a lovely, warm community.
They mostly wear a wig, but can also choose a snood or a scarf, which I didn't mind so much. Those who have grown up expecting to cover their hair at marriage seem to feel naked without it, eg if a gust of wind blows it off.
Unmarried girls don't cover their hair.
The interesting thing is that until about WW2 nobody there wore a wig, though they did wear a hat to go out. So it seems the strictures have become more intense over the years. This seems to follow the same pattern as with Muslim women - eg I notice that the more Malayan women cover up now than when we lived there in the 60s.
I don't cover my hair now, but if we ever go back to visit I do. Still got a horrible wig!

Tricia Could you explain to me please, why wearing a wig, possibly made of someone else's hair, is any different to showing your own hair? I don't understand.

Do men make the same choices as some women about covering their hair? If not, why not?

Can't say I've noticed such or ever come across a discussion about men wearing hijab type head coverings.

I've nothing against head coverings. I wear hats and snoods and scarves a lot myself. What makes me uncomfortable is not the head/hair covering but the fact that all the discussion about whether or not, and freedom of choice about it has never, to my knowledge, been applied to men.

On an individual level it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not discussing Nadiya's case, but the general principle.

For some reason religion is absolutely fascinated by hair...

1 Corinthians 11:15 - But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering.

1 Corinthians 11:6 - For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

-- which is why orthodox Jewish women wear the sheitel (pious wig), and only their husband is allowed to see their hair...

1 Corinthians 11:5 - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

-- which is why church-going involved hat, headscarf or mantilla

1 Corinthians 11:14 - Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

-- so much for all those likenesses of Jesus, from Turin shroud to burned toast to bathroom mould stain...

In Leviticus 19:27-28 - "(27) You shall not round the edge of your head, nor shall you destroy the edge of your beard. (28) And you shall not make a cutting for the dead in your flesh, nor shall you make a written tattoo upon you; I am Yehovah."

He's a bit kinky if you ask me!

Why do orthodox jewish women accept Paul's teachings. Letter to the Corinthians
appears in NT not OT.

I suspect St Paul was just repeating orthodox Jewish tradition and laws in order to apply them to the new Christians as laws.
I think St Paul was known as a very doctrinaire upholder of Jewish law until his conversion. My RE teacher called him a dreadful misogynist.

St Paul has a lot to answer for imo.

RELIGION has a lot to answer for imo!

So what's with hair? Do Muslim and Jewish men have a thing about women's hair , similar to legs and boobs in the western world?

Whitewave - I think so. I was told that the idea comes from Numbers 5:18 about the woman suspected of adultery " she shall loosen her hair". A passage which also makes hackles rise among modern women - though if found guilty evidently the man is put to death too.
I agree that some wigs are so glamorous that they defeat the purpose.

I googled the Jewish wig thing, apparently hair is a womens' beauty so they keep it for their husband's gaze, but some women shave their heads and wear a wig! So where's the logic there?

Don't ask for logic, this is religion.

Islam arose from a Jewish culture in the 7th century AD. This might give some perspective.

www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/islamjudaism/

"Islam, like Christianity, accepts the Jewish Bible and is based largely upon Jewish ideas and traditions. The philosophical underpinnings of Islam, however, are more closely aligned with those of Judaism. Whereas Christianity incorporates the idea of the “trinity,” Islam believes in one all-powerful, infinite God.

Mohammed, the founder of Islam, based many of his beliefs on the practices of local Jewish population in his native Mecca. For example, the Moslem practices of not eating pig, circumcision, daily prayer and fasting during the first month of the year were all culled directly from Judaism."