Out of control Children/Parents

I agree Lucky she's a daft bat.
The problem is the parents, not the children.
I like to see children out with their family eating together - in Hongkong it was the norm and it's really not that difficult to keep children amused and well -behaved for a couple of hours.
It boils down to what is expected of them - if you expect them to behave well, they probably will!

Your garden centre cafe sounds ideal Granarchist - I hope some cafe owners are reading this!

It is hard with young children in cafes and sometimes it is not worth the hassle of taking them as keeping them reined in is too much of a chore. But it is good to see the mums out enjoying themselves; and I think that parents need to be mindful of other diners and the others need to be a bit understanding.

We always try and make sure that our littlies do not impinge too much on others; but sometimes other eaters are keen to engage with them and enjoy them being there.

As for Janet S-P - she makes a living out of being curmudgeonly so I would expect nothing else of her - daft bat!

There is a garden centre cafe near us that has an enormous toy box, masses of high chairs and a child friendly menu. The local NCT meet there, as do the 'stitch n Bitch' ladies. As there is also free wifi, loads of business people meet, have coffee and work from the tables. Everyone gets on fine and it is very relaxing to take the DGC. Huge log burner at this time of year and comfy sofas too. Unsurprisingly it is very popular.

I am all for mums getting together with their children and having a cuppa, but a cafe is not the place for the children to let off steam. If they bumped into someone carrying a tray of coffees and were scalded, the same mums would sue. Why not take them somewhere with space to run in safety?

And will the same offspring think it is OK to trash an event venue when they are older?

I agree with that, jingl.

These days I avoid those places and head off to where the old fogies hang out

Just thank the Lord mums have the chance to get together with their kids in cafes these days. Far better than being stuck, isolated, at home. Give 'em a break for God's sake!

I think she has a point. It used to be a right of passage for a child to be taken to a restaurant. A chance to share in a grown up experience and parents used to encourage the child to not fidget, talk in a normal voice - not yelling and demanding and exhibit decent table manners. A little bit of mess is acceptable.

Definitely rarely the case these days.

Marmight you say "many years ago" you ran a cafe. 'twas ever thus?

Daft article.

I can remember the embarrassment of a table - and floor - littered with messy crumbs and god knows what. I always made a slightly feeble effort to clear up behind the little darlings, but never with much effect. What is needed is more on-the-ball table staff ready with the cloth and spray bottle.

She is, of course, childless. silly cow

I haven't read the article, but I think it's fair to say many of us have experienced the "coffee shop" scenario. One incident that springs to mind, a couple of years ago we were in Costa Coffee, Esher, two young children under five, with dad, were running riot round and round the tables, the shop was quite busy with customers carrying trays of hot drinks. Benevolent father just smiling at his offspring as if they were a complete joy to behold. In the end, one of the staff, and this doesn't happen very often because I find they are generally not very proactive in remonstrating with parents, actually came over and asked him to leave, which he did. This was a particularly extreme case. I did also witness a couple of very young children having a race against each other in not so crowded Marks cafe, still dangerous imo, oblivious mothers not taking any notice.

I would just like to add that I live in a communal development by the Thames and we have wonderful gardens where the children play outside in the summer, some of the older residents complain about the noise. My attitude in these circumstances, "is stop being such a grouch, they need to play outside and expend some energy" In cafes and restaurants it's unacceptable and I wouldn't have allowed my children or my gc to behave in a way that they would annoy other customers.