I couldn't believe my ears .....

My husband is an immigrant (from Greece) My two sisters-in-law are immigrants from Greece to Germany. My daughter is an immigrant to the US. My step-daughter is an immigrant from Norway to Sweden and my son-in-law is an immigrant of sorts as he was adopted from Sri Lanka to Denmark!All have or had good jobs and contribute or have contributed to the society they live in.I should think most families have relatives who are immigrants! My view is that people should not come here unless they are prepared to work hard and have a job to come to. Nobody should be allowed in if they intend to claim benefits or beg on the streets. We need to be a lot more careful with our borders and make sure all immigrants are going to be productive members of society and not be a drain on society by claiming benefits or begging. Obviously, there must be exceptions, such as the Syrians, who are fleeing from death and destruction, but economic illegal immigrants should be sent straight back.

When we had a Sky package we used to watch the Glenn Beck show, until he left:
www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/30/glenn-beck-fox-news-last-show_n_888155.html
It was entertainment as much as anything, and we certainly don't share his political views. A bit like Trump in some ways.
It's interesting to see all the different opinions on race, religion politics etc.
Maybe with a close relative it's more upsetting, reflects lack of experience and knowledge of other cultures.

It is so difficult when it is a close relative spouting racist nonsense. My late Mother would come out with quite offensive language (which was probably ok in her youth). In fact living in rural East Anglia she had hardly met any non white people. So I guess it was ignorance rather than unkindness.

And is of course in the ownership of Murdoch- who owns the Sun- and also 70% of Australian newspapers. News are rarely independent and their owners often have very ulterior and not very clean motives either.

Fox News has aired some extremely racist views, about Obama and Muslims, etc. And so often reports lies, whipped up into a frenzy and totally untrue.

Here is a clip of Birmingham (UK) to illustrate this point:

youtu.be/-_zF7nbEvwY

So yes, I'm afraid those who do watch it and only it, like my cousins- and say any other channel in the USA or the world, including the BBC, is biased and untrue- do deserve to be judged for this- even though, in a democracy, they are legally allowed to hold such views (unless they do incite racism and hatred)...

I meant about commenting on what people read - we are allowed to read what we like and should not be judged as a big group of people with no opinions that are worthwhile just because we read certain newspapers. Also the news programme. I have never heard of Fox news - no idea what it is but would never condemn anyone for watching it.
People have different opinions on all sorts of things - we are a democratic country so everyone has a chance to air their views and vote as they choose. I do not agree with racism - I have to observe equality and diversity because of my work but I can see why a lot of people are upset about immigration. Where I live it is not a huge problem and people from other countries bring a huge benefit to our local economy however I have observed other areas where there are problems and would never discount anyone's concerns.

Why was it a problem if it had been a mosque?

In one Catholic European country I lived in it took a long time to get permission to built a C of E church and when it was it had to be very discreet so as not to upset the Catholics. And we are all Christians.

It doesn't matter one bit to me that my best friend and I have different views on the forth coming referendum, I can't understand why she thinks as she does, but it's her choice. My lovely dad and I supported different Policical parties all his life, we used to discuss politics a lot, we never once had a cross word about it, he thought the way he did due to the environment he grew up in and I respected that, again, he and my mother supported different polically parties too, I stood her way. It really is not worth falling out with your sister about it, her views might be coloured by something you know nothing about. If we all thought the same it would be a funny old world. I would ring her up and ask how she is and try and put it behind you.

Synonymous - not my style either and I did consider inserting a different word but it felt as if it had lost something! I did insert asterisks though

Sunseeker not quite my own style, but to the point!

Synonymous Your comment about to assume makes an ass out of you and me reminded me of a more down to earth comment I heard "assumption is the mother of all f**k ups"!

Yes, Sunseeker, I am tired of DM readers being treated as idiots because they read it. I was taught in my English class in school, "to read between the lines". My friend gets the Telegraph which I read after her. They are similar. I wouldn't by the rubbish Mirror or the Sun. I suppose everyone has to be a Guardian reader to fit some peoples approval.

I was staying with an old friend of mine from college a couple of years ago, she lives in a picture postcard village which has some tucked away 'social housing', so as not to spoil the views you understand! A drug addict and his partner had been given a home in 1, as with the nature of the beast he and his girlfriend were prone to public skirmishes with some choice language from time to time. This incensed my friend to such a degree I began to fear for her mental health! I have always believed that there but for the grace of God could go anybody (my friend herself takes a drug on a daily basis for depression which she has begged her GP not to stop and also likes a glass of wine!),. I expressed my view in an effort to diffuse her anger, but sadly it had the opposite effect and she ended up screaming at me that all these people should be put somewhere together so as not to upset the lives of others or in fact line up and shot!! I was totally stunned and have not been to stay with her again.....

Just reread your post Jaycee and it makes me wonder if he works with such a wide group what it is that makes him come to the conclusions he has and have you asked him to explain and help you understand him? It could be very interesting and perhaps even make your cousin think too, you never know!

Jaycee it certainly is not judgemental to worry about propaganda. My point is about that terminology mentioned being used instead of discussing or debating. So important to keep talking and exchanging thoughts and ideas.

My cousins have friends of all nationalities and colours and his job involves training people from all countries so I don't think they are racist so much as bigoted out of ignorance and, as they are not particularly stupid, I do think it is the influence of what they read and watch on TV. They are the kind of people that will believe the Channel 5 programmes obsessively demonising anyone who is amongst the least fortunate.
Unfortunately propaganda works. Not everyone that reads newspapers which have a disproportionate amount of hate speech will absorb it but enough people do to make it a problem.
It is not judgmental or bigoted to worry about propaganda.

Just to clarify that the country has historically always had immigration most of whom have historically integrated well. It is only when integration does not happen that problems arise.

If fear cannot be expressed it builds and then it can come out violently so it is wise to be very careful to think before speaking. We need debate which is why, as Lilyflower says, the terms such as bigot, fascist and racist are not helpful as they merely serve to shut down debate. I read in a book of sayings "A man who resorts to insults shows his arguments have run out" It says far more about the person who resorts to such abuse than anyone else and underlines their lacking.

PC has a great deal to answer for and often skews what is being said because assumptions are made. I went to a lecture many years ago where the lecturer was talking about listening. He said, " Never assume because it makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me' "! Listening is so important and is about what is not being said as much as what is being said.

This country is full of immigrants who have mainly integrated and it has not caused problems since many are even more proudly British now than the' natives'. It only causes problems when the immigrants fail to integrate and instead seek to impose their values and customs, law courts and religion on the 'native' inhabitants. This causes problem not the least of which is FEAR!

The papers we read are only a small part of what we do and who we are.

I don't like racism we need immigration I myself live where immigration is very high where in some areas it is made obvious we are not welcome, talking to people which I must admit are mainly of the older generation a lot of what they say could be seen as racism is fear about overloading of our schools some of our local schools are mainly made up of children who's first language is not English and class sizes are getting bigger it must be hard for teachers , our local hospitals are being downgraded despite a massive increase of people , I welcome immigration on both sides and will not listen to blatant racism but I can understand the fear factore ,if I offend anyone that is not my wish just putting my feeling across

Well said Sunseeker and MOnica. I am absolutely fed up with being judged by the paper I read. As if I don't have any intelligence and believe every word they write.
Being worried about immigration does not make me racist!

I am a little concerned that the words: 'bigot', 'fascist', 'racist' are bandied about freely and frequently today to depict others as unacceptable and to shut down debate. If the recipients are otherwise decent, respectable, law abiding people it cannot be right to condemn them in such terms without considering why they have the views they hold.

In our family we read widely online and it is always interesting to see how wide the views are. It is helpful to know what is being said and why and there is always a reason for those opinions. Some articles are well written and well reasoned but others are not - 'twas ever thus!

Well said Jackthelad, that poem is very pertinent and will be ever more so as events develop.
I would add that it is usually when people feel frightened they lash out, verbally or sometimes even physically.
At least we have a vote at present and I hope that everyone uses it.

We are getting some very bigotted and judgemental views on the papers people read.