I couldn't believe my ears .....

Historically France had closer links with Scotland than with England. I think that's all that is about.

And apology not needed but accepted Alea - hope I haven't dug the hole even deeper!

Alea - I was 3 when the war began, my Dad was away for 4 years, and we heard terrible reports about what was going on. In my imagination I used to think, could they do the same to him?
I only mentioned it to illustrate one way in which prejudice can be formed, and how it's possible to change through education. I don't think it helps to deny it, it just ferments internally.
And I don't believe many people who say they're not or have never been racist.
We get it in France very often, the french don't like the english. But they don't mind the scots for some reason?

Thank you everyone! My attempts to change the subject at the time were what led to the being told I was ignorant and stupid!

Unfortunately she's been ignoring/snubbing me and DH ever since, including putting the phone down when I called, so looks like we might be persona non grata ?

Very sad but her choice. She fell out with her twin sister years ago. Perhaps this was going to be inevitable at some point.....

As a new employee of Manchester City Council in the 1980s, I was obliged to attend an anti-racism course. The definition of racism we were given was 'power+prejudice'. I have mulled this over many times in the past 30 years and can see a lot of holes in it, though it may have been more relevant then. It comes down the the question, 'What is at the root of prejudice?' Not sure I can answer that but perhaps some of you can have a go.

loopylou I think we all have relatives whose views we disagree with. I think one of the problems is that as they age people's views tend to move to the right, so those who had right wing views anyway can sometimes tumble over into more bigotry and racism.I think all you can do is to make it absolutely clear that you disagree with them and then change the subject. It would be nice to think that if you presented all the arguments well you could change their views but experience says that won't happen. I don't think it is always entirely their fault, there is a lot of propaganda out there in the form of 'factual' programmes that provides 'information' to reinforce their opinions.

I accept that and on behalf of the very nice Germans I know I am delighted! (even on behalf of the less nice ones, because nobody is perfect!)
But the expression of disliking a nation based on historical events before we were born was still something which surprises me.
I did not mean to imply that I think you ARE prejudiced TriciaF and apologise if it looked like that.
I hope now that you might be able to meet some nice Germans or visit that beautiful country to reaffirm your revised opinion.

Tricia said she used to dislike or mistrust Germans but has now changed her mind.

I can't believe you have said that Tricia and hope that your own experience has led you to rethink the second hand prejudices you have been exposed to.
The Second World War started Seventy seven years ago., how on earth can an entire population be judged based on the actions of extremist politicians nearly 100 years ago.
gononsuch repeatedly insults the Welsh - adding a doesn't detract from the unacceptable ignorance he/she is displaying. And no, I am not Welsh, but believe in respecting individuals whatever their nationality or colour.
I am thinking this is becoming an unpleasant thread and an excuse to air some shameful prejudices.

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GandTea -
There are 2 races/nations that I used to dislike or mistrust.
One was the Germans (because of the war.) But my family persuaded me this was unreasonable, and I've been doing a lot of reading about prewar and wartime Germany and it has changed my views. Having said that, I don't think I've ever met a german person.

I have a non-racist lap top, every time try to post it crashes.

That is what I mean by racism, Gononsuch. Have you met every single Welshman/woman and found out that there is not a single one you could like?

If your son/daughter married one, would you get to know your SiL or DiL, welcome them into your family and discover that they were real people with good and bad points just like you, or would you hate them on sight, be nasty to them and end up alienated from that part of your family? There are people on Gransnet who followed the latter course and are now very unhappy about the estrangeent (though not with Welsh inlaws)

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I would say that racism is assuming that every member of a given race has the worst qualities that any member has ever displayed, plus a lot of bad characteristics that have been attributed to them falsely - and using that assumption as an excuse to abuse or attack people for belonging to that race.

What does "racist" mean? It's a word that's bandied about so much now, it has almost lost all meaning.
Openly criticising other races? many don't do this but still have the dislike in their hearts. So is it just verbalising those feelings?

MrsMopp, well said.

I think people can appear Good Natured and be Racist.

I know people that appear Good Natured until race rears it's head, Jekyll & Hyde.

Good-natured AND racist???? No.

I was commenting on the use of the word racist as it seems that people who think there are too many people coming into the country are labelled racist when I don't think they are racist. I'm not arguing pro brexit here.

OP: "I wish I hadn't heard my sister's strong opinions on Brexit"
Posters: "here are my strong opinions on Brexit"

There are specific Brexit chat threads you know, might be more helpful on this thread to keep it to the topic of how to maintain/manage relationships with people who have opposing strong views, rather than debating the views themselves?

We are a small country. The EU allows open borders where any member of the EU has the freedom to live in another EU country. If people are of the opinion that there are too many people coming to settle in the UK, does that mean they are racist?
They may be concerned about overcrowding, shortage of accommodation, shortage of jobs, pressure on the NHS, the benefit system and schools etc. does that mean they are racist?
More people have come to the UK than those who have left - that is a fact. We also have people coming here from the Commonwealth. If Turkey and Albania enter the EU there will be a greater number wanting to come here, and we have no say in it. We cannot control our own borders. But it's about numbers, not racism.

I have no idea where I come from, in terms of ethnicity.
I don't care where anyone else comes from.
I detest racism in any form, and think that if people need our help and we can give it, we should.
I think extreme nationalism and religious fervour can cause harm.
I read the Guardian and sometimes the Times, but am also very capable of forming my own views.
I'm probably a champagne socialist.

There are people I care about in lots of ways who I admit to liking less when the subject gets onto politics.

I tend to avoid the subject at work and with family. It's too divisive.

Similarly with the dreaded facebook, there are people who I like in real life but their political posts make me like them less - I hide facebook posts from anyone with conflicting political views to my own so that we can continue to get along fine in real life

In an ideal world we'ld be able to have discussions with people from other political points of views, but some of the Brexit stuff is just so far off the wall and almost inciting hatred and violence that I don't think it's possible at the moment.

I think that we have to weather the storm and just keep politics out of relationships until after the referendum. I felt the same coming up to the last general election. People did go back to "normal" once voting was over and the results were out.

Many of the immigrants that have come here over the years have not necessarily had fantastic qualifications; nevertheless they have been - and continue to be - instrumental in the smooth running of our transport systems, our hospitals, etc. etc.

I feel very uncomfortable with the notion that only someone with specific skills or education can be considered to be a "good" immigrant who will contribute to this country. Many people doing unskilled or semi-skilled jobs are every bit as committed to their jobs and still play an important part in keeping this country running.

Many of the illegal immigrants are well qualified and prepared to work our socks off and many come from countries wracked by internal strife caused by the interference by outside powers like Britain, USA, Russia and others. They are the unwelcome results of our own past actions.

I am half-Irish. My ancestors had to leave their home country and migrate to England or the USA because of the famine and starvation resulting from generations of rack-renting and oppressive government by absentee landlords and a foreign power.