Is my friend being unreasonable about her pension.

jane I think that's correct.

Another thing: when do you pay tax? If you have a total pension income of, say, £200 per week, you'll pay tax, yes?

If you get, say, a pension which includes an element of entitlement to other top-ups, but still to the value of £200, do you still pay tax at the same rate?

Bang on, thatbags.

I think you get credited with some form of contribution until your kids are 12. It's all a bit unclear, but you CAN make voluntary contributions, I think.

I think what is unfair about pension credit is not the money itself, if I have understood correctly.
It's the additional things that go with it, such as entitlement to housing benefit and free NHS dental treatment, which means that someone receiving say £160 per week which includes Pension Credit, is actually much better off than someone receiving £160 per week from just their pension(s).

thatbags I agree with you about childcare. I didn't have children so never took a break from paid work, but seeing how hard my friends worked raising their children I didn't doubt for one moment that it was work - even though they were not paid for it!

Since 1975 women with children staying at home have received credits towards their state pension ( although they have to have paid so many years NI to benefit from that).

Bringing up/caring for kids is work if it's someone else's kids and you get paid for doung it but not, apparently, when it's your own kids and is unpaid work. That, for me, is the nub: unpaid work isn't counted as benefitting society in the same way as paid work even when, in fact, it does.

This is one of the reasons why I like the idea of a citizen's income paid to everyone. I believe it is being piloted in Finland.

I think this situation is the same as the parable in the New Testament, the men working in the vineyard/olive groves,some were taken on early and agreed to the price paid to them, much later in the day another worker was taken on at the same rate of pay.The early workers were angry and protested..... but they had agreed to the price, so if the owner chose to be generous to the later worker that was no concern of theirs!

My ex brother in law is not at retirement age yet but I will not be happy when he receives a state pension because he has hardly worked his entire life, each job on offer being "not quite right".

I worked my entire life so I also receive a good company pension so at least he will not be entitled to one of those.

Maybe north.

Maybe your friend thinks a "good" state pension should be more generous than it is?

Yes it's very similar to that mumofmadboys. But i think that should be an easier problem to solve. The average wage isn't in line with inflation, the nat min wage is too low, the government having to subside employers because they aren't paying a living wage is the reason people have to claim tax credits. There should be much better incentives for people to work, i.e. better wages.

Yes sun seeker i agree with you, the vulnerable have to be supported, but also do you think it might cause a lack of incentive to work towards a full state pension if you know that it would get topped up if you didn't. Its hard isn't it. My friend doesn't expect people who haven't paid in enough to now suffer and not get enough to live off, i think she thinks perhaps she should be better rewarded. How, i don't know.

This is the same problem as those doing low paid jobs getting little more than those on benefits. There is no easy answer. We need to look after vulnerable people but also incentivise people to work. How can it be done? From a moral standpoint it is good to think you are have contributed to society.

I receive a full state pension having paid full "stamp" all my working life rather than the old "married woman stamp" and am not entitled to any pension credits. However, I have a friend who only paid the reduced stamp and took time off to raise her family, she now receives almost as much as I do but I don't resent that, she still has the same bills and expenses as I have and would not be able to cope without the top up. Would your friend like to see the other person unable to feed themselves, pay rent, council tax or heat their home.