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Militarisation of our society

(114 Posts)
trisher Fri 07-Apr-17 22:40:38

When I was growing up most of the men I knew had served in at least one war and some had served in 2. I never remember any of these men doing anything to draw attention to this. They never wore any form of uniform, never wore their medals even on Remembrance Day and never really spoke about their experiences. Today I see ex-soldiers wearing berets and medals at many events. I wonder if this is a sign of some sort of militarisation and increasing glorification of war, something I know the men I knew as I was growing up would have entirely rejected. I find it disturbing.

Jalima1108 Wed 12-Apr-17 16:56:21

I was talking about all the men I knew Jalima-I didn't know your father
You never know though trisher, it's a small world full of coincidences!

Abonet Wed 12-Apr-17 16:54:29

People can see and hear it though, rosesarered.

rosesarered Wed 12-Apr-17 16:41:46

There is no evidence of the UK becoming militarised at all, think that this may only be something pacifists would come up with.hmm

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 15:22:53

Oh, nice, trisher. Which company is making lots of money out of that one?

trisher Wed 12-Apr-17 14:50:55

As far as fighting is concerned I wonder how many people know about the development of land mines. They originally killed anyone who stepped on one, but were redesigned by arms manufacturers to only badly injure. The idea being that if you killed a soldier his mates carried on fighting, if you badly injured him his mates and several other soldiers would be tied up caring for him. I have heard that the person responsible for this innovation kept a model of the land mine on his desk, he was so proud of his invention.

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 14:45:57

My dad wasn't conscripted. He joined well before the war, as his dad and grandad had both been soldiers, and he followed them.

NanaandGrampy Wed 12-Apr-17 14:19:35

I think there is a clear divide between those who are or were conscripted into military service and those that join as career military.

Although most of those conscripted for the WWs went willingly in a belief to serve it was not a choice for them. They did not have extensive training and many had absolutely no idea what they were going to. Therefore I think that could be one of the reasons they were less willing to talk about their experiences.

Also WW1 & 2 were really the last 2 wars where a great deal of the fighting was face-to-face. The experiences of that would certainly have been traumatic.

Much more of todays warfare is done at a distance with more limited hand to hand combat. The experiences are very different.

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 11:27:38

I agree, trisher. I never heard anyone talk about the war, apart from the fact that that was how my parents met. My dad and his brothers never talked about what they did in the war.
My brother sent for my dad's medals, as he was in the army. My dad didn't want to know. My dad joined the Burma Star Association when he was in his late 70s because he had heard there weren't many of them left. He went to meetings, but never went to any cenotaph parades.

trisher Wed 12-Apr-17 10:54:08

I was talking about all the men I knew Jalima-I didn't know your father. We did have a Remembrance service in our school every year. None of the masters wore their medals, although at least one of them had evidence of being wounded.
I do wish people would understand that what this thread about is the increased militarism that is being fed to our young people as being the norm and the fact that this is closely linked to the proliferation of the arms industry. Add to that the propaganda we are fed about removing selected 'tyrants' who we have previously supplied with arms and we have a situation that should not be tolerated in a civilised democracy

Jalima1108 Wed 12-Apr-17 10:33:08

ps that would have been in the 1960s btw

Jalima1108 Wed 12-Apr-17 10:32:54

They never wore any form of uniform, never wore their medals even on Remembrance Day and never really spoke about their experiences.
I have a photo of my father laying a wreath on Remembrance Day; he wasn't wearing a blazer but was wearing a suit and his medals. He didn't speak about his experiences to me but he did to my DB and to my DH.

trisher Wed 12-Apr-17 10:27:44

Cyprus is equally as difficult. It remains a divided country part of which is occupied by the Turkish, and it is still monitored by UN forces. It has a huge military presence altogether so might understandably want to have its own contribution.

rosesarered Wed 12-Apr-17 10:26:01

So why is it called military service?

rosesarered Wed 12-Apr-17 10:25:11

So not a new thing at all.

trisher Wed 12-Apr-17 10:24:58

Lets be careful about this, what we consider military service is not at all what happens in France. The young people are often used to provide what might best be described as social services. For example a friend's son spent his time teaching English to immigrant children- nothing military about that.

rosesarered Wed 12-Apr-17 10:24:58

There have always been visits to school by the armed forces, ditto from the police.

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 00:53:48

Were your links supposed to be all the same, chewbacca?

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 00:35:48

They do not do any military service under the age of 18. They have to sign up when they are 17, but are not called until after they are 18.
It's a bit like in this country where you have to tell them you are 17 in order to register to vote, but you are not able to vote until you are 18.

Chewbacca Wed 12-Apr-17 00:32:51

Luxembourg: "17-25 years of age for male and female voluntary military service; soldiers under 18 are not deployed into combat or with peacekeeping missions; no conscription; Luxembourg citizen or EU citizen with 3-year residence in Luxembourg"


Chewbacca Wed 12-Apr-17 00:30:34

Ireland: "17-25 years of age for male or female voluntary military service (17-27 years of age for the Naval Service); enlistees 16 years of age can be recruited for apprentice specialist positions; maximum obligation 12 years; 17-35 years of age for the Reserve Defense Forces; EU citizenship or 5-year residence in Ireland required"


Chewbacca Wed 12-Apr-17 00:29:30

France: "17-40 years of age for male or female voluntary military service); no conscription; 12-month service obligation; women serve in noncombat military posts"


Chewbacca Wed 12-Apr-17 00:23:53

Cyprus: "In accordance with the provisions of the Law relating to National Guard, there is compulsory military service for all male citizens of the Cyprus Republic including persons of Cypriot descent on the male side, who are resident of the Republic. The obligation commences in the year the person becomes 18 and continues to the year of his 50th birthday. Voluntary enlistment from the age of 17 years"

Chewbacca Wed 12-Apr-17 00:17:55

The UK is the only European country that enlists under 18 year olds

"Military Service (Section 10 of the National Defense Act): All male Austrian citizens between the ages of 17 and 51 are subject to compulsory military service. All males under the age of 35 must complete a basic military service program of six months' duration." Source: www.Austria. org - military service.

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 00:16:42

That was from a report in the Independent, by the way.
We complain about other countries using child soldiers, but we train them here when they are 16. They go to fight at 18.

durhamjen Wed 12-Apr-17 00:10:00

Evidence that we are being militarised.

"These measures, along with continued Armed Forces visits to classrooms – around 11,000 a year – constitute, according to campaigners, a worrying militarisation of our schools and an indirect means of recruiting under-18s. “What we know from MoD documents is that recruitment is an aim of the Armed Forces going into schools,” says Sangster. “Schools provide a kind of captive audience of young people of recruitment age.” "

11,000 visits a year to classrooms. The UK is the only European country that enlists under 18 year olds.