Help us: Allow children to see their grandparents

Starlady i have just done 2 online exams for my dh ref vulnerable adults and children, then children's act 1989 is more designed for parents responsibility, however in 2014 a new law was passed making anyone parents, grandparents able to have a fightingnchance to see estranged ? and now mediation is non negotiable before a court hearing,

We attempted this our daughter refused, so solicitor told us it would go in our favour that she had refused to mediate, however our beloved little xxxx. Does not know us and my failing health i.e. Major op to face now in July means we just walked away,

We have left letter and bequests in our will so one day she will know how we loved her always and only want best for her which seems to be walking away but it's totally broken our hearts, I will never get over losing my only daughter and adored first Grandaughter.

WE JUST thank god for wonderful son his family, and other close family and friends,

Anya?What horrendous thing to lose a grandchild, or child or indeed anyone we love,

I think in my sad case there is no hope left but I do take your valid point where there life there hope.

Sadly the point not sure if you are able to see is my daughter, yogagirl daughter and Smilelss son have all cut their parents off in cruel way deliberately.

Sorry if not putting this well

Indeed kindness is the word in life, a dear priest now dead said to me over 30 years ago when I confessed to being lapsed Catholic and years since went to confession he said quote"that does not matter my dear, just try and be kind to people ". And I do, not always as much as I should but I really never forgot those words.

Annsixty are you saying cheque for £50 was t enough ? I wonder sometimes at the sheer rudeness of people.

There are 2 sides at 18 the Grandson is old enough to contact his grandparents himself,

Yes Annsixty these are the type of GP that are not 'cut-off' because they are not 'in' the GC lives in the first place. It seems it's the GP that love and adore their GC that are the ones 'cut-off', and much pleasure had by the AC partner in doing so!

My D's C have been effectively ignored by their paternal GP since they were born. They have always lived some distance away so the GC have never got to know them.
Now my D and her H are separated they will probably never see them again.
When my D has been up to stay with me she has rung them and called to see them but has stopped now as they have never once rung her and asked how they are or to speak to them.
My GS was 18 two months ago and he received a cheque for £50. the other two got cars,there are GGC now and they receive lots of attention. Always two sides to a story.

This should be a lesson to our estAC, that you can have a dispute, then cool off and move on, together.

It's not long ago you were asking if I had a heart yogagirl so I'm hoping you do understand the point I'm making about the permanency of death. And I think another poster was trying to make that same point, even if it was clumsily put.

Can we perhaps be kinder to each other?

I understand Anya and I'm truly sorry for the loss of your dear Grandchild

Thank you so very much for your support Smileless , it means a lot to me. These awful things some posters write, churn my stomach & bring a tear, they really do, so unnecessarily nasty!

Rosyglow Thank God your Son stayed with you, that's what my estD should have done; "If you don't want to see my mum that's fine, but I and the children will" that's what she should have said.

Jayanna you come across, not as grandmother, but as a mumsnetter in the cutting out Mother.in.law camp. You sound hateful & bitter, why is this??

No Mother could have loved her child more than I loved my estD [along with her sister & brother] My D&GD lived with me before 'he' came along. We had a very loving and happy relationship, and my granddaughter definitely loved me as much as I loved her. Every morning my D&GD would get into bed with me and my D said she couldn't wait for me to wake-up so she could. When my D&GD moved out to live in a bungalow with 'him', she would phone me each and every morning, as would my Granddaughter. I had no problem with him and didn't know he had a problem with me, until he throw his fist at me and told me to "F* OFF" when I went to visit. This was after he had had a big argument with my D, she ran out of the house with the C, it started to torrential rain, she asked him to come and pick her up & he refused! Myself & my other D was on holiday [we came back to help & did invite them to come with us on H] and we think it was no coincidence that he chose this week to pick and argument. He wouldn't let her back into their family home or see her C, the eldest, my GD, not his C to keep!!
My D stayed with me and I mediated between them and got them back together, by telling him "J would get custody of L and therefore J and it's the mother & C that stay in the family home, it's the man that leaves" [said in a nice way] with this he took my D back and cut me out! I only knew afterwards about his severe personality disorder and that he was a gypsy, from a huge gypsy clan.
Very sorry to those who have heard this story before.

Let me express something about losing a grandchild which may perhaps help others to understand a little.

When you have lost a grandchild, it is completely irreversible. They are gone, forever. There is no hope left.

I think what those who have suffered this are trying to say is that at least those who have been cut off from their grandchildren still have, is the knowledge that their grandchildren are alive and well somewhere out there. And there is perhaps, just perhaps, the hope that one day things will change and they might, perhaps, have the opportunity to hold that child.

I hope that explains things in a way that everyone can accept?

Rosyglow, imo, you have a beautiful attitude. Ds is lucky to have a mom like you in his corner! It's too bad gd isn't getting to know you as a gm. But she will know your love, in time, when she gets to read that card (hope that's a long way off though, for your sake, of course).

Yes, Smileless, I totally agree, people should be able to discuss this issue without insulting each other. But it's a hot button issue, and I imagine some people just lose control a little.

But wait... Yoga, actually tried to get visitation? I don't recall reading that, but I haven't been here long. I guess it didn't work out, Yoga. You must have been very disappointed. I'm so sorry.

Jayanna, did you actually lose a gc? If so, you have my deepest sympathies.

Smileless2012 (gently) I suppose the petition may be viewed by some as worrisome because it opens the notion that rights exist where many see none? There are 14m GPs. Using your numbers (as good as any, well done you), there are .5m estranged GPs. Many of those GPs are estranged for good reason (I'm assuming about my sils, here). So, the petition is to a fairly low number of GPs and GC who could use the court system. It seems like an attempt at GP rights, imo.

I posted that anyone who has experienced the death of a grandchild would not care about any estrangement if only that child could be alive and safe and happy. Yogagirl replied What a ridiculous and mindless post.
But since you have not experienced the death of a grandchild I was perhaps wrong in expecting you to understand that.

The bitterness I've seen on this thread has come from you Jayanna. You made a cruel and completely unfounded allegation to Yogagirl and you should at least retract it if you're not big enough to apologise.

I don't think anyone thinks that everyone will be in agreement with this petition Starlady and Yogagirl knows better than anyone else the emotional and psychological cost involved by taking a legal rout to see EGC. However, you would expect that on a site like GN, posters supposedly mature and worldy wise, would be able to express their views without insulting other posters.

Exactly Rosyglow, this petition would be a starting point what's wrong with that?

From what I have gleaned from the petition, it is just a starting point - talking point if you like - which would hopefully progress to something more definitive. For that reason I have signed, although it won't benefit me regardless of what happens. The reason being that I have accepted my situation. I see nothing to be gained by forcing a daughter-in-law, who previously was like a daughter to me, to allow me to see my granddaughter. Only she knows why she has behaved as she has since the little one was born almost four years ago. I take this course of action for the sake of my beloved son, who has been treated despicably by his wife for attempting to change things. Also, for the sake of his daughter who hasn't a clue who I am and I believe would be distressed if forced into anything. I am just thankful that I still have the love and respect that I have always had from my son.

The only thing I have done is leave a little card with my will, for her daddy to give to her when he feels the time is right. Nothing judgemental or criticising anyone. Just telling her that she is always in my heart, how much I love her, and wishing her a wonderful life. In this way, the heartache is mine and hopefully won't taint those I love more than life.

In response to my first comment, Annie said:

"Starlady: OMG, I'm in total shock..."

Now orangelemon is saying:

"I cannot believe some the posts written on this thread.. And cannot believe the way things have been going on here....."

Then I'm glad some of us have raised questions about the petition - because this is what's going to happen if this issue becomes part of a broader public discussion. And I think gps, estranged or not, need to be mentally prepared for that and not go into shock when it occurs. Not good, imo, for any gp to assume that everyone is or is going to be "all for" this type of law. Whether in the legislature or out of it, there are going to be people who express doubts about what's being proposed - as well as those who actively fight against it.

Mmm, think I'll just repeat myself.
"Could grandparents who obviously have quite bitter feelings towards their adult children refrain from introducing their bitterness into the grandchildrens's awareness? Not from what I've seen.
How damaging would that be for a child?"

Think the above posters have proved my point.

I think that presenting this as a "children's rights" issue is a tactic for gps who feel that seeking "gp rights" doesn't get anywhere. However, I do believe that most children benefit from a relationship with their gps. I just think the petition is too broad, as I said.

Do I have ideas on how to "fix" it? No, I'm afraid not. There are too many variables. I wouldn't be sure which ones to include or how to word it. As a pp said, that's probably why these petitions aren't usually successful.

Then again, there is the Children's Act, as Smileless mentions. So why are such petitions needed anymore?

Smileless, I appreciate the idea of getting the issue out in the open. it does seem to be a growing problem. But again, hasn't the Children's Act already done that? What would be different if still another law was passed about this concern?

It's a brilliant book isn't it Orangelemon well done to Yogagirl for recommending it to those of us on the estrangement thread some time ago. I still dip into it from time to time.

I cannot believe some the posts written on this thread......I think some people.... should remember we are both mothers and Grandmothers... I recommend a book.... Abandoned Parents: The Devil's Dilemma by Sharon A Wildey..... Thank you Smileless for making sense.... I sitting on a train at the moment reading these posts.... And cannot believe the way things have been going on here..... this why forums often condemned.... Kindness..... Where has it gone? Let's cut off Grannie she spoke too loudly, too softly, she was too kind, too helpful..... Oh please, it is a growing silent epidemic..... read up on it.

What a horrible thing to accuse Yogagirl of Jayanna; she never said any such thing. All of us EP's want our GC to be alive and well, that goes without saying and I shouldn't have to say so.

This thread is about a petition to try and make it possible for EGPS's to have access to their GC. It has nothing to do with the tragic loss of a GC through bereavement and IMO to make even the vaguest reference to such a tragedy is inflammatory and counter productive.

There is nothing unsympathetic about your post morethan2, quite the contrary. You have posted on this subject before and have always extended your sympathy and understanding to those of us who are estranged.

There are different points of view and perspectives which is only to be expected and I see no reason why these can't be expressed with civility.

With a broken heart, I agree with you morethan2 Although I think a granddaughter that lives with you, can love you just as much. I was the second parent as well as the grandparent, as no father in the picture from the start of my now estD pregnancy.

It won't work. The reason is because it will embitter the parents/ adult children even more. Their feelings will be evident to the grandchildren. most children love their parents unconditionally and will naturally not want to see their parents hurt. (I know many of us think that our grandchildren feel the same about us, but they really don't. It's a completely different relationship. Plus by the time you got to court the estrangement will have been ingrained) You only have to see the distress at any contact centre when a reluctant child is forced to see an estranged parent to know the damage it can do. Enforcing contact is only going to pass the pain down to the next generation. In my opinion it will just magnify the hurt for our children, our grandchildren and us. I hope this is not seen as an unsympathetic post. I know and understand the terrible pain of estrangement I do. There is some pain that has to be borne and I think that's the message that some of the poster are trying to get across. No one here could deny that not being able to see a grandchild would tear a heart in two. We only have to read some of the threads. I don't know the answer to this painful problem but forcing all sides into contact is not it.

From a child's perspective what would it feel like to have a judge rule that they MUST visit someone who their mum/dad do not want them to see? Each case is so different that this blanket approach will raise more problems than it wants to solve. My DGDs other granny does not care an iota for them. There is no reason she could not send cards/gifts etc. Call them on the phone. She just CBA.

Jayanna I cannot believe you have said such a dark, blood chilling thing on this thread for grieving grandmothers. Grieving for their beloved Daughters & Sons, grieving for their beloved Granddaughters and Grandsons. Crying each and every day! And you Anya where is your heart?