Kids having kids & unproteced sex

norose4 you did say
Whilst it is true that who a woman sleeps with is her own business. It should also be her business to attempt not to have an unwanted pregnancy. Speaking as one who has seen the aftermath of children born unplanned ,I can assure you it has emotional, mental , & finacial repercussions for years & generations to come .
And forgive me if I find that judgemental about people. If you don't want someone to come back with challenges don't post as if you are the only person with knowledge, or who cares
gillybob my mum gave Marie Stopes' "Married Love" to my brother to read when he was about 12, so I pinched it and read it as well. I was 9. Not sure I understood a word of it at the time but I suppose it must have been in the back of my mind somewhere and it was certainly a lot more than most girls got then.

I agree, gilly, I'm sure my grandma would have been a lot more helpful than my mother.

By sheer ignorance Ana (I know what you mean though).

Exactly Penstemmon.

I remember getting a packet of sanitary towels left on my bed without any explanation whatsoever angelab My friend had an older sister who gave me the basics of what to expect.

My DS's father sperm donor (my son's words) was my first boyfriend. I was embarrassingly naive and had sex with him as he threatened to finish with me if I didn't. I really didn't have a clue. I couldn't have gone on the pill anyway as our "family doctor" (who always smelled of booze) was very old fashioned and, rightly or wrongly, he would have told my parents. In fact even standing in the queue outside his home surgery would have attracted attention from some old busy body who would have made sure my mum knew I was there.

In hindsight... I don't know why I didn't try and talk to my grandma. She was far more "with it" than my mum (her own daughter) and would have no doubt been helpful and sympathetic.

gillybob, how did you manage to get yourself pregnant?

(sorry to be facetious!)

gillybob thank you for your post. (My mother was very similar - when I went to visit my gran aged 13, my other put some sanitary towels in my case and said "I expect you know what these are, Grandma doesn't need them anymore - that was my sex ed!)

We differ radically in political views but it is great to go on forums where you see different sides to people.

gillybob there but for the grace of (something!) go many of us!

Ignorance is not bliss! I am forever grateful to the teacher at my secondary school who, in the Lower 6th (as it was then) devised her own sex ed programme. Whilst I knew the 'facts of life' she brought those facts to life by talking about passion/lust/pleasure and telling us the details and info we needed to keep ourselves safe from STD and unwanted pregnancy but still have fun! Needless to say she was not English!

The only sex education I received was in the school playground! There wasn't sex education as such back then but we did have biology. Just as we were to start on human reproduction the female teacher left and was replaced by a male teacher who changed the lesson to frog dissection! My parents also never came close to talking about sex - the closest was when my father warned me "not to bring trouble into the house"! I didn't get pregnant so I would think with all the sex education and contraception available girls would be able to avoid accidental pregnancy (I accept that sometimes contraception fails but not very often).

I got myself pregnant at 17.

A few years previously my parents had written to my school forbidding me to take part in any sex education lessons. The reasons they gave was that "they wanted to inform me themselves" what a joke !

This coming from a mum who couldn't even say the word bum never mind provide me with sex education!
This coming from a mum who made my sister and I turn our back while she adjusted her petticoat!
This coming from a mum who would slap you for scratching or touching a "certain place"!

Angry doesn't even cover it!

wildswan maybe some people do know better and are trying to answer the OP from a good, informed knowledge base.

It can be annoying when you hold a particular point of view or are seeking confirmation of an opinion,but have little first hand experience, and your view is upturned by someone who actually knows factually & or experience wise about the situation and can back up their perspective. It has happened to me!

Thank you so much Wildswan16, I do find it very depressing , I'm all up for a debate & differing points of view, but the highhandness attitude of some just gets me down. Plus I blame myself for not explaing my thoughts very well . I'm a gransnet beginner baby , so I will toodle off& have a mild tantrum & throw my dummy out of the pram . Lol?

You have to start from where they are and build on that, but part of the building is to try to move them away from lifestyles which are dangerous for them. It is walking on a knife-edge to do that without sounding condemnatory and sending them off in the opposite direction.

Norose4 - I am sure there are many of us who understand exactly where you are coming from and what you are concerned about. Please don't worry about a very vocal few who try to put others down by supposedly knowing better. They will hopefully learn that a gentle and understanding approach works better on forums as well as with our young girls who can face such grim choices.

I have either not been very eloquent in what I was trying to say or you Trisher have not understood what I was trying to say. Either way I can't be bothered anymore It seems unless we have a degree in English or know someone really well, what ever we write is open to a different interpretation to the one meant by the writer.

norose4 Do you imagine you are the only person who has seen the effects of this. I can tell you I spent years working with children who were born into such circumstances. What changed lives was not a judgemental attitude but people who were willing to work with the reality, accept what was happening, but provide care and support and HOPE for a better future. The problem with your attitude is that you appear to be unable to accept these young women for what they are and to deal with the fact that they may lead lives you disapprove of. It isn't any good telling them they are doing wrong. They probably already know. You have to start from where they are and build on that, condemnation and preaching don't help, reassurance, support and education do.

p.s. my much loved second daughter is the result of failed contraception (iud). That was after attending 'fertility' clinics to become pregnant with her older sister. These things happen!

trisher you are right.. it seems the greater the poverty levels the greater the number of 'unplanned' pregnancies there are in the the most vulnerable groups of people. I think it may be to do with (unconsciously) feeling in control. If you have nothing at all: no home/job/prospects then having a child can be seen as a positive action in an otherwise negative experience. Statistics on births seem to indicate that the better educated, caring, satisfied a society/country is in general the fewer children are born into vulnerable situations.

Whilst it is true that who a woman sleeps with is her own business. It should also be her business to attempt not to have an unwanted pregnancy. Speaking as one who has seen the aftermath of children born unplanned ,I can assure you it has emotional, mental , & finacial repercussions for years & generations to come .

And if a young woman has a child we should do everything possible to make that child's life the best it can be. It isn't any good going "Oh they shouldn't be having sex without protection, Oh they shouldn't get pregnant." It's happening deal with it and move on. All the research shows that if girls are given education and opportunities they don't get pregnant. It's about raising expectations and providing support so that the next generation do better. Sadly we are now going into reverse and things are getting worse not better.

Who a girl or woman sleeps with is no one's business but her own.
The desire for a child is nothing like wanting to have a dog.
Children should all be welcome in a rich country such as ours.
To base having children on how deserving someone is because of how much money they have is the what is immoral in my view.

Maybe its time we didn't condemn, but looked for reasons.
I don't think you mean condoned in your second sentence.

dj maybe it is high time we did condemn certain behaviour or do you condone unprotected sex with a high amount of partners, some known but some unknown ? Is it not time we condoned the bringing of children into this world when you dont have the means to feed, clothe and provide a bed for that child ? If i bought a dog but could not afford to feed it i would be berated for animal cruelty but if i have a child without the means of paying for it that would be ok after all that would be my free choice and entitlement

I used to teach PHSE and I was saddened by the number of girls who had no aspirations beyond being a mother. I think, as has been said, they craved someone to love and be loved by, or thought the only way a boy would marry them was if they got pregnant.
In contrast both my daughters went to uni, got good jobs, married and gained promotion before having babies in their 30's. Neither of them can afford to have large families. It bothers me that, in the future, children from older, educated parents will be in the minority and a larger proportion of children will be from a deprived background.

Janetblogs I am sure that what you describe is often the reason some of the young, unsupported mums become pregnant.

It is good that the statistics do show fewer teen pregnancies
but UK is still higher than other places so still work to be done. Holland, where there is a strong relationships and sexual health education programme starting with young children, has a very low 'unwanted' pregnancy rate. Knowledge, understanding and openness about sex] and is showing to be an effective way to have a healthy attitude to relationships and sexual behaviour. I wish any government in UK would invest in such a programme! Might be a question to ask candidates over the next few weeks!

Thank you to everyone who understood what I was trying to say & those who took the trouble to message me with lovely positive comments.
To those who choose to reply in an unhelpful,self satisfying way, well I hope that you may reflect a bit more on what effect your posts may have on other people/posters and to EXALTEDWOMBAT I do not want any respect from you & I am pleased to say I am not a friend & would never wish to be!