Problems which are not problems

ann Sorry that you have so much on your plate that you are feeling sensitive and thought you were being got at.

The discussion about sympathy/empathy was a side track. These words have been discussed on GN before and some people thought that offering sympathy was pitying and demeaning and shouldn't be done, whereas empathy was a good thing. I (and Baggs too, I think) don't agree. All a matter if which exact words are used, nothing really to do with the comfort that kind words from friends can give.

I hope the many supportive posts have helped.

PS I don't know who said droning on but it wasn't me.

If "I might as well shut up now", "I feel humiliated", and "condescending attitude" do not mean that my posts were found wanting and offensive, then I apologise for thinking they did.

I joined in (in my first post on this thread) with comments about ann not feeling any need to leave GN because of the opening post and I defended another poster whose posts were criticised because she was unaware of ann's home situation.

I was careful to emphasise that my comments about sympathy and empathy were not criticisms. They still were taken as such, it seems.

I don't regret any of the ideas I've put forward in this thread. I don't say things to be condescending or to humiliate someone, nor do I wish anyone to shut up on any subject whatsoever. I don't think anyone has defended free speech as strongly as I have on Gransnet over and over again.

I've already said that I'm sorry ann has taken things to heart as she has. I'll say it again: I really am. But she knew her opening post was likely to generate some discussion — she said as much in it! — which is exactly what it did.

Ann, I echo what lots of people have said - you do not drone. And, if you want to offload on here - that's part of what it and we are for! Stay with us.

Annsixty you do NOT drone.
You made a very understandable point, with or without your home circumstances.
Laughter can often be "the best medicine" and there are also times when it seems superficial and out of place.
However I didn't get the impression that you were decrying the lighterhearted threads or the "bit of fun" posts but echoed what anybody might feel about the overthinking of trivial issues. Bluebelle's fictitious dilemma about heels v flats, for instance.
Don't be deterred by semantics such as sympathy v empathy,I'm not dismissing them but caring can go a long way in making life tolerable.
Off loading is not droning on.
Please do not think you ever have to hold back from saying what you feel.

Ann, I've pm'd you as well. Please done let this hurt you x

Oh annsixty please don't take this to heart.

I've pm'd you Ann. Meanwhile stay in the kitchen where we would miss you if you weren't there.

I just find Baggs post to me very troubling and mystifying. I have obviously been unaware of any occasions when I have taken offence at anything you have posted or commented on how you comport yourself on GN.
I must be unaware of how I come across.
I promise you all I will not be droning on about myself on this or any other threads any more.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Synonymous - I send you my best wishes and a bunch of
Love from Danni xx

Well, I will stick my head up above the parapet and confess that I have only just started back and for a while have been only 'lurking' on gn because I have felt quite unable to do anything else. I have great sympathy as well as empathy for Ann and others in truly dreadful situations. DH and I have been in one of those too which has made me feel very unwell and quite unable to cope with things such as others' problems, many of which do seem trivial in comparison. I was reading a thread today which made my tum go into knots and I had to retreat as fast as I could. Perhaps when I read that thread it just pushed me over the limit of what I could currently manage and maybe others feel like that too, I think I was reacting from the depths I am in.
Things are improving for us and, whilst I am very aware that for some this will not happen, I am really looking forward to the day, if it ever comes, when normality returns. I just don't know what normal is any more!!
Coincidentally, I was talking with DS about this very thing yesterday and we were reminiscing about playing 'The glad game.' We both did this when we were quite young and we were trying to remember if it was Anne of Green Gables or Pollyanna - or was it both of them who played this game? Whichever it is, it is certainly a therapeutic thing to do if we can - but very hard for us all particularly when we are in a very bad place. I am going to try it anyway and so is she in the hopes that it might just help.

Thank you for that post, maw. As we both know, without seeing faces, it's all too easy not to get as much from a communication as we would face to face.

Nana&grampy your last post resonates with me.

Ann please dont be upset,
You have given me some good advice regarding an operation
You have been an ambassador on behalf of GN going to Visit Ruby whilst she was in hospital and passing on our best wishes.
And then reporting back.

Not only that ....we auditioned together (on crutches) for the GN Panto
not sure which one of us got the parrot

You have done all this and more whilst coping with the trials and tribulations of your daily life.

So I am raising a glass or tfwo to you Ann one hope that you will join me .

Baggs I am sorry if my post suggested that I thought you were the friend in question, it was meant to apply in general, "what sort of friend would that be"
I think I do know what you mean by "depresses" maybe "drains"(?) but speaking as someone whose keel is uneven to the point of bumpy, I have never found it hard to feel or show compassion to genuine misfortune. I used to encounter a lot of it (giving and receiving) in the rellies' room at the Royal Free attached to ITU where one way and another I seemed to spend a lot of time, there were family members facing bereavement and those still clinging on to hope. We all still did what we could to support each other, only withdrawing to a discreet distance when it was apparent that bad news was imminent.
So I don't think I misunderstood you, but there are of course many people whose personal issues do occupy their attention to the exclusion of all others , but fortunately I encounter few of those.

ann, I'm sorry you feel that way. This is not the first time I've felt that nothing I say, or ever have said directly to you (or sometimes more generally) fits with how you think I should comport myself on GN and if it's at all possible to find offence in what I say or how I say it, then you will. I don't think it's deliberate. I just think it's a pity because, other than regretting that you seem to misunderstand what I post, I have no negative feelings towards you at all and never have had.

I must say though, that I found the words of comfort and encouragement extremely helpful. I would have 'gone nuts' without GN!

Well, you'll all be glad to hear that I've finished moaning about my partner and am looking forward to living alone albeit in the wilds of Norfolk!! ?

nanna I have a friend who has spent the last 30+ years moaning about her husband and I must say my sympathy ran out years ago

Well as we don't all read scholarly articles or certain published papers, we sadly are left behind. I only had a grammar school education and cannot compete .
I feel very humiliated for my lack of understanding and my education and the condescending attitude
I will leave this now, I have had enough.

I find I can be sympathetic up to a point and that point is where the person is doing nothing to help themselves . For instance maybe staying in an abusive relationship when there are alternatives . When it becomes obvious someone wants to discuss their situation ad infinitum but does nothing to help/ rectify or solve it - then I can't buy into what I perceive as a 'pity party' .

That might sound harsh , I'm not sure but I'm sure it's to do with me needing to offer practical support not just words !

I've not read that article, Baggs but I have noticed the rise of empathy and the decline of sympathy as reactions to other people's sufferings.

Once upon a time (when I and the world were young) no-one had met the word "empathy" except perhaps as a technical expression in some learned psychological paper. If someone was bereaved or had some other great misfortune, what you gave them was your sympathy, and they appreciated it in the spirit it was given.

Then it seemed that sympathy was starting to be considered to be just a conventional word on a greetings card (as condolences had) and if you really wanted to give comfort, you had to go the extra mile and have empathy. The more empathy was expressed, the lower sympathy seemed to sink in the table of desirable emotions.

But to equate it with a condescending and rather sanctimonious pity does seem to me to be rejecting a spontaneous offer of comfort.

Ah, thank you, elegran, for saving me from myself yet again! I'm remembering now some vague details of the scholarly article I read and I seem to remember it talked about the touchy-feely thing about modern society. I think it was critical of the tendency, it saw, of social pressure being put on people to respond more to other people's not always serious problems with more gusto and being seen as a pariah if you don't, not because you don't feel ordinary sympathy, but because you are simply not the gushy type. And, perhaps, because sympathy wears thin when it's never enough or when people simply don't believe you when you express it cos they think you're horrid.

Baggs very nice, to the differences in sympathy. I can fail, spectacularly, at sympathy, but empathise well.

Well, the prefix sym- means “together” or “with,” and the prefix em- means “within, in,”

So sympathy is suffering alongside the sufferer, and empathy is entering into the suffering, as though you were suffering too, exactly the same as the sufferer (perhaps like the couvade?)

Sympathy used to be the word always used, nowadays empathy has joined it, even passed it, as people looked for a new way of saying something more than the traditional sympathy. I wonder whether this is due to the general trend toward being more explicitly touchy-feely?