.. to be appalled by this news about Jacob Rees-Mogg on GMB today

Science (the word stems from the Latin word to know) is great! ?

Another point worth mentioning is that from a Catholic point of view having a lot of children is (certainly was) seen as a good thing

It was certainly good for the patriarchal Catholic Church and the men within it but I would doubt that all the women and children would agree.

I know you were not arguing for the so call 'natural family planning' Baggs, but you are hardly putting a balanced argument by explaining it from the RC point of view so it needs that little bit of balance in my opinion.

Abortion is such a personal thing.

As a catholic I also have the belief that abortion is nothing other than taking away the chance of life from someone that can not speak for themselves.

An innocent child that knows not of the world and why it should not be given the chance of life like the rest of us.

If I were an un born baby about to get aborted I would definitely say no to that and ask for the chance at life.

I do totally understand that being born due to rape is an awful start to life but does an unborn child deserve to die because of that.

I know this is a complex issue and as others have said we all have and are entitled to our own opinions.

GraceGran I agree with you..... However take out the catholic issue completely and you are still left with an unborn baby that is going to be aborted/die

A child that has No say in the matter

If that un born child was you .. and you could speak .. what would you say to the possibility of being aborted..

It is Serkeen and you and JRM are both entitled to take a position on where you personally come from on this but this is not a thread about abortion, it is about JRM's fitness to lead either his party (their choice) of the country (ours).

But abortion has been mentioned so many times how can you say that it is not about abortion

It must have been terribly difficult for JRM to state his opinion on this very delicate subject and as he has had the courage to do so I believe he could be a good MP. However.. politics is not my thing, to me most MP's care not and are not genuine people.

I'm wondering that too, serkeen.

As I understand it (I'm not a Catholic even if the RC Church argues I am because I was baptised into it without my consent), those who think even very early abortion is killing a child think so because they believe a human being's soul is present from conception. If someone does believe that and also believes that human life is sacred then it makes perfect sense for them to be totally against abortion whatever the circumstances of the successful insemination.

Just for info, I don't believe in souls as I think our minds and how they work are as physical as the rest of the universe. I'm just stating the above argument because I can see where someone who is a Catholic, like JRM, is coming from. So I don't think he is being evil in thinking what he thinks about abortion, or being anti-woman, or anything else bad. I just don't agree with him.

A good deal of this thread seems to stem from the minds of people who simply cannot, or will not, see a subject from another point of view.

Speculation about JRM becoming leader of the Tories is just that at the moment. I think it's fairly far fetched. Someone will come and, figuratively speaking, stab him in the back just like what happened to Bojo, simply because, like Bojo, he's unsuitable for the role of leader or PM.

I think he would make an eminately suitable Tory Leader I do so hope he is chosen.

As I understand debate, gg, stating the arguments from the point of view that one doesn't support is what one's supposed to do before demolishing that take with better reasoning. This seems like a very balanced way to approach a subject to me.

Re the other side of souls starting at conception, I refer you to a much better debater than me, Richard Dawkins, in various of his books. I forget in which one he argues best about souls and whatnot, bit his argument probably occurs in several of his books.

ww ?

I don't think people are saying "all is well" just because they like the fact that he was honest about his personal views! Admiring the honesty does not automatically equate with either agreeing with him or thinking he'd be a good leader of the conservative party!

Traditional Britain say he isn't honest.

Let's stop laughing at dangerous men like Jacob Rees-Mogg

But he is not an honest man madgran. He was honest when he had no choice but prevaricated when he thought it the best thing to do.

Traditional Britain say he isn't honest.

Who/what is "traditional Britain "? Where has this statement originated from please? Is it a reference to a quote in a publication or just your opinion?

He spoke honestly, but in my opinion voting to cut benefits is in fact double standards and shows his true colours. He is against abortion and would like to change the law knowing full well that rich women would still have access to abortions as they have in the past whereas poor women would resort once again to back street abortions and all the risks involved. He has 6 children because of his Catholic principals but wouldn't allow a Catholic family on benefits to have more than 2 children. In other words only rich people can have sex. Because there isn't another 100% certain method of contraception that the Catholic Church agrees with.

principles not pals (sorry)

Eloethan

I know exactly what durhamjen was referring to as this is not the first thread Rees - Mogg and the Traditional Britain Group dinner speech has been mentioned is it.

As you are happy to answer for durhamjen perhaps you too could provide evidence as to the validity of the following statements from durhamjen to which you presumably are happy to be associated with.

" He also belongs to a group that wants to repatriate black and Asian britons. Not sure where to."
-
"But that doesn't matter to you because Rees-Mogg is such a nice man that he wants to send black and Asian britons back where they came from"
---

It is stated he belongs to a 'group' so I am asking What group does he belong to, is a member of ?

When or where has ' he ' stated 'he wants to send black and Asian Britons back to where they come from"?.

I remember the accusatory post put up by durhamjen re Rees-Mogg and his 'Failure to declare interests ' in Parliament link I am surprised that has not been regurgitated.

Oh wait a minute that was a link that went back to 2014 and did not mention the fact that the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards subsequently deemed no investigation was necessary .

I am not going to be indifferent to the Traditional Britain Group who I believe to be abhorrent on so many levels but I think the 'statements' about Rees-Mogg are untrue .

So I am asking for evidence of the 'statements' .

If they are not provided that is because they are untrue statements and Rees-Mogg has never said ' he wants to send black and Asian Britons back to where they come from"?.

As for 'the group' he has been stated to belong to I am interested to know about. Are you both stating Rees-Mogg is a member of Traditional Britain First, is that 'the group'.?

GGMK2

" It is Serkeen and you and JRM are both entitled to take a position on where you personally come from on this but this is not a thread about abortion, it is about JRM's fitness to lead either his party (their choice) of the country (ours)."

Jacob Rees-Mogg is entitled to take a position on where he comes from on a personal level on abortion , We all are!.

This is a thread about abortion as it is in the OP . I agree the intention behind the OP was to give a wide scope but using the abortion comment cannot be whitewashed .

"Traditional Britain says he is dishonest"

And we should all believe what Traditional Britain says, should we? No scepticism allowed about what a deplored organisation says? In spite of the fact that when asked an awkward question about abortion, JRM answers honestly while knowing how unpopular his answer is to most people?

Even you are not that gullible, dj.

To what prevarication are you referring, gg, please?

Madgran 77

Exactly.

Calm down POGS. No one has said you are not entitled to your view.

I've had enough of the nonsense as you just re-ask the same question POGS. Off to do more interesting things.