Free firty (3:30) - is this an accent or ignorant speak?

What I find offensive is the recent spate of adverts on TV, for example, the vacuum cleaner guy who has a Nottinghamshire dialect and speaks very slowly. It's as if they have been told to speak slowly and roughly so the plebs can understand!

Virtual Round Of Applause!

Rant alert! I was a speech and language therapist in the NHS for many years, and as such, treated clinical speech and language disorders. Occasionally, parents would refer their children because they didn't like the way their children spoke. Usually they spoke the same way themselves. I had to tell them, diplomatically, this was NOT an NHS matter! There's more hot air wasted over this than virtual any other topic - and hot air is what it is: waste air is passed over the vocal folds and shaped by the articulators to produce more or less intelligible speech. Speech is a primary mode of communication, but it changes constantly over time according to fashion and population movement (try listening to recordings of the Queen in the 50s). Speech varieties (accents) also change. The ONLY measure of adequacy of speech is can it be understood without excessive effort. The rest is prejudice and snobbery. Why not just celebrate variety and difference?

we are judged by our accents - after moving south 30 years ago I still get comments like - oooh you from up north - I can hear your accent - I have a laugh with some people as it is known we are a friendly lot

the posher ones say three thaahty.

I heartily dislike the lazy "posh" way of speaking. Why can't they say three thirty, as I do?

I have a regional accent, but have never and will never use 'f' or 'v' in place of 'th'!
If someone speaking to me uses 'f' or 'v', I stop listening. If they can't be bothered speaking properly, I can't be bothered listening to them!
It's common for young children to have problems with the 'th' sound, but allowing that to continue into adulthood is lazy in the extreme!

Those of us who aspire to be socially mobile learn how to fit in with the people and places where we plan to work and live.

I learned to speak properly and changed my accent in my late teens when I realized that I wanted a better life than my school friends.

Consequently I moved away to work and live all over the world and have no friends from my schooldays.

I had 'elocution lessons' forced on me and can speak in RP if I so desire. My native speech has been described as 'posh Manc'. My mother to this day bemoans the fact that I don't speak 'properly' all the time. I tried to explain to her that I don't like the pretence and the hypocrisy. I do occasionally lapse, usually when some snotty middle-class Southern shandy-quaffer is braying at me in a patronising manner because in their tiny brain 'Mancunian' equals 'unlettered oik'. At that point they are bludgeoned with my excellent education and finest RP accent, alongside what my friends refer to as my 'psycho-librarian' persona. Top one, sorted innit.

I don't think the 'f' or 'th' issue is due to being uneducated. In fact, I know it isn't. I think assuming it is shows a lack of education, actually. Except I'm too polite to say.

If we are bringing manners into the subject we might miss a few aitches and drop a few frees into the conversation But my children and GD are regularly complemented on their manners, and I have never receieved any complaint about my lazy or babyish speech when I have been helping people to obtain information or help their situation..they absolutely do not care where I come from or how I speak...I am actually proud of who I am lazy unnattractive uneducated speech or not, Iam who I am take me or leave me but if youvare going to judge the way I speak then I would rather you left me because I wouldnt want to know you

I don't know why the ' f ' for the ' Th' is not called out as cockney or uneducated London which is what it is. The hegemony of London I suppose. . It goes along with the bad grammar too. E.g. 'They was here.' Some regional accents are much easier on my ear. Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

And my comments, it seems.

I never say 'haitch', but that may be because I drop my aitche

I’m with Nona4ever on the haitch/aitch bugbear. It’s really, really irritating as it’s never been spelt that way surely.

Obviously not though, if the thread was started in response to the BBC embracing those with accents and speech patterns.

Standard English and Received Pronunciation. R.P., are a way of our all understanding each other. Of course, we all speak differently to different audiences and we do not want to be snobbish or judge.

However, let us not kid ourselves that we do not really think the worse of those whose pronunciation is lazy, mistaken or plain wrong. Spoken English is a de facto social marker.

Hypocrisy is a feature of virtue signalling and non-judgementalism. We say, 'Don't judge them' in a patronising way when, really, we would not speak badly ourselves or let our children do it.

I fear it is just another deceitful way the middle classes lie to and keep the working classes 'in their place'.

I speak as a working class girl who sneaked into the middle classes by teaching. I educated my on children at prep and grammar schools and their lovely manners and accents have done them as much good as their fantastic education.

I have no wish to pull up the ladder after I used it and taught and advised my own pupils as I would have wanted my own children advised. At least I let them know that whatever they said, employers wanted S.E. and R.P.

My lovely son-in-law is from Essex and he says 'free firty'. He doesn't have a speech impediment. My grand-daughter is 5 and I love hearing her count but she has picked up this habit from her dad. She doesn't say it when she is reading, only when speaking, which is interesting but I admit I do try to correct her when I hear her 'f' instead of 'th' (not in front of her dad though).

Did anyone on this thread mention that the point of language was communication?
Having taught English on a couple of different continents, I found that, quite often, my foreign students were easier to understand than some of the native speakers on tv.
It seems interesting, too, that to hear clear speech one needs to look for an ethnic- minority speaker. These are generally comprehensible whereas the possibility of understanding native born Brits is not always a given.

My biggest bugbear is people who pronounce the letter H as 'haitch' instead of 'aitch.' It is increasingly prevalent on the TV and, I'm sorry to say, sounds really common.

Adam Hills the Australian comedian thinks the Australian accent came from a cockney convict landing in Australia and having to slow down the speech because of the heat !! I'd post a link but can't work out how... & there's alot of use of the 'f' word which some of you appear to find distasteful.
I am very proud of where I'm from and my accent. It does not make me less intelligent if I drop my th sounds or if I use some words that are considered by some as bad language.
I don't swear at people (very often) & I never swear at or infront of dgd.
I'm firmly in the camp of take me as you find me... not judging folk for their diction or dress sense or any other quirk or difference whether you're on the BBC or not.

I don't like "free firty" but I can NOT stand "They would of done it". One is babyish and lazy, but the other is horrid IMO.

When I went to elocution lessons hundreds of years ago, the teacher told me one of her aims in life was to rid me of my Gloucestershire vowels. Well, I can assure you, they still come out in times of stress! However, I have noticed , when listening or watching regional programmes how few children have local accents in this part of the world. They usually fall into two camps - lazy Estuary English or Standard English. It’s such a loss!

I was always taught that communication was about expressing yourself clearly. During a recent poetry lesson I congratulated a student who recognised that a particular poem was in 'free verse' on asking her how she had drawn that conclusion she said ' I just counted them miss'

I once had an interesting conversation on a campsite in the middle of France with a couple who were trying to guess my location from my accent. He said London whilst she suggested West Country but more like Hampshire.

Together, they were spot on! I lived in London for the first 28 years of my life before settling in North Hampshire when we married.

I like your comment about the French accent .... I find some English accents are very difficult for me to understand , I once sat in a boat trip next to a couple and I could not understand a word of what they were saying ..we sat next to each other at lunch time... and after much trying I found out they were from Birmingham... and my accent make it difficult for me to get understood when I am on the phone ... I have to spell everything to get myself understood.... but some don't try , some "customer service line" were I have to hold for 30 minutes or more they listen to my accent and out the phone down on me.... and I have been in the uk for more of 30y lol ... nice to know some of you like our accent