To be ashamed of being British?

I am proud to be British and English Baggs and really wouldn't want to be anything else, but I feel quite sad that anyone daring to fly the English flag should be made to feel like (or described as) a "right wing thug" (to quote another post) when its perfectly okay for anyone to fly a Scottish, Welsh or Irish flag.

We need another anthem which celebrates our love of our country (and there is a lot to love!) without belittling any other country, and without praising just one family

Exactly Elegran

We should reclaim our flag really, but it'd take some guts to fly it in many areas. I do have one - we used to hang it out of the upstairs window when the England football team played when DS was a child. Even then I used to whip it back in pretty sharpish when the match ended.

"God Save Our King" was written in a hurry during the civil war, when Charles 1 was under threat. It is high time we had a new one that celebrates our country as a whole.

As Cecil Rhodes said: To be born English is to win first prize in the lottery of life.
I would substitute English for the United Kingdom because that's what I believe in.

Well said petra.

I agree that we maybe need another National Anthem; after all the existing one is proclaiming victory over the Scots an awfully long time ago!

I wonder why the flag has been appropriated by the right wing ( of all hues)? Just my opinion of course, and I don't wish to start a political argument, just curious. There was a great deal of national pride, during the London Olympics and that was wonderful to see and experience, pride in what GB had achieved in the fields of medicine, engineering, literature etc.

But, Petra does your "belief in" your country really stop dead at the borders of Wales and Scotland? I can't believe that you put no value on someone born and living a mile further North or West?

Oh, I see now, When you said you would substitute English for UK, it seemed you were jettisoning UK in favour of England. That exchange phrase is always very ambiguous as to which is old and which is new.

Elegran
Thank you for explaining your reply @ 16.10.

I am not ashamed to be British at all.
I despise the louts that give us a bad press but they don't speak for the vast majority of us.
We celebrate St. George's day in our village but the day doesn't get noticed by the general population. We don't don our bovver boots and sing nationalistic songs. Just put on a meal and judge the George and the dragon colouring competition.
Very tame actually. We also have a burns night so which some of us foreigners have the cheek to go to!
I've just read that a British lawyer has been shot dead by a new-nazi in Germany who hated foreigners. We don't have the monopoly on ignorant nutters.
When I was young, many years ago we went home to Britain on leave. The scots always went home to Scotland. paddyanne can't help it-she was brought up that way!

But we cannot wipe out history, Scotland and Wales and NI have had to fight to be recognised as part of Britain not three bits of land stuck onto England, ok NI isn't stuck on but you know what I mean . Not starting up the old battles again but I think this explains why the flags are so loved,

NI is part of the British Isles (as is the Republic of Ireland) but it is not part of Britain. It is part of the UK.

Seems to me that, if being British is like winning the lottery, being born in Ireland[North or South] is like getting the booby prize [not that anyone here seems to care much...].

I don't uderstand what you mean by your last comment, tegan.

Perhaps the all-important "if" means that it doesn't matter whether I understand it anyhow. Phew ?

I am not in the least bit ashamed of being British or English.

Why would I be?

Why should I be?

The irony is when someone calls the English racist, bigots but fail to see that is exactly what they are being always eludes me to be honest.

When someone says ' only ' the flags of St George and the Union Jack/Flag when flown are thought to be symbols the English are ALL rabid right wing ,racists but ' other' national flags show nothing other than 'Pride in their country' makes me think they don't understand what 'irony' means.

The term ' Little Englander ' is used to belittle a race of people and is commonly accepted as meaning ' xenophobic', ' overly nationalistic ' , 'ignorant '. The 'irony' is those who say it do not understand nor accept they are consumed by bigotry and racism themselves or they would not use / say the term.

If that is the level of thought by ' the many ' then I wonder why any any English man, woman or child ever falls in love with somebody , resides in, goes on holiday to, works in countries ,such as Scotland, Wales or Ireland, if that is their opinion .

If that is the level of thought by ' the many' then I wonder why any Scottish, Welsh, Irish man, woman, child ever falls in love with somebody , resides in, goes on holiday to, works in England, if that is their opinion.

Ah but wait a minute!

People from England, Scotland , Wales and Ireland 'DO' fall in love with others from outside of their own country, they do happily reside in , enjoy holidays to, find employment in countries that are not of their birth.

Thank goodness bigotry is not shared by ' the many ' whether they be English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh .

Thank goodness most people just simply want live happily with friends, family, work colleagues and don't give a stuff about which country they are from and they show every day how bigotry and racism will belong to ' just the few '.

being a nationalist isn't being bigoted or racist Pogs its simply that we want to be in control of our OWN country ,not have Westminster foist their wishes on us.I'm not anti English by any means ..just anti westminster and most nationalists are the same.We have english families and friends so it would be a bit odd to hate them ....wouldn't it?Having control of our own country doesn't make those family and friends any less important.I have never been racist about anyone nor will I be when my own GD is English ...but why should I be happy that 80% of( English )MP's in WM have more say about what happens in my land than the people who live work and contribute here ?

paddyann

" being a nationalist isn't being bigoted or racist Pogs "

In my opinion being a nationalist is not racist nor bigoted also. I have not said it is .

I am however of the opinion it is tantamount to being so if a person believes only 'Their' country should have the right to display 'Their' flag and state another countries flag belongs to the right wing , racist , xenophobe. It is also bigoted/intolerant to not allow others to have the same feelings about 'Their' country as they do and also find it acceptable to use derogatory terms like 'Little Englander' (no matter how much they protest they believe it is not intentionally used in derogatory manner it does not wash!).

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/incredible-pictures-show-welsh-village-10284365

Well said POGS you explained exactly how I feel.

The great play-write Alan Bennett is ashamed to be British because of Brexit and the consequence attitude to foreigners.

Alan Bennett is a national treasure and I'm not surprised he feels like that. I'm not ashamed to be British, though I identify as English. I'm fed up about the way the referendum was conducted and the result but there we go. All we can do now is work towards the best deal which includes holding on to stuff as far as is possible.

Pogs, I'm another one who struggles with the notion that everyone has the right and indeed should feel pride in their country - everyone except the English. If we love our country, which I do, we're often seen as supporting the actions of our ancestors who colonised so many countries. Yes, they did, so did the French, Spanish, Germans, Portuguese etc. No one would see that as a good thing now but it happened and we all have to try and make sure we learn from our history.

Baffling why some English think others believe they shouldn't have pride in their country. It is the EDL and their like who used your flag not with pride but their racist rants.
It is English people who complain they want the same pride in their flag as the other three countries in the UK do.

So the complaint seems to be many English can't feel,pride in their flag because some English have used it for the nastiest of reasons.

I have at times said 'little englander' I am not a bigot even though POGS has declared me so.

For me a little englander is the person who has said on this forum - the Welsh have free prescriptions but we give them the money ! The we being England .

Or the small group of English people who moved here , complained that one church service a month was in Welsh which meant they couldn't take Part !

BBC sports commentators who reel of the medal tally with - two more medals for England, followed by the other three countries medal tally.

The difference in attitude to Tim Henman and Andy Murray.

Just who are the bigots ?