To be ashamed of being British?

Well I'd ''emigrate'' to Scotland if the weather wasn't so cold (even worse than the NE). I've always admired their politics and their policies.

The ill-judged, badly-run EU referendum seems to have either caused a dramatic rise in racist and bigotted views or has encouraged the racists and bigots to express their views and act accordingly. Either way, it has made many of us less proud to be British than we once were when we thought we were living in a tolerant, inclusive country.

maggie this morning on Today. He went to a restaurant in Leeds run I assume by a person from Europe. ALan Bennett said that he apologised over Brexit and the resultant fall out and said I feel ashamed to be British.

Brexit is clearly a great worry to him.

I agree maggie and further to that, although I like Bennetts writing, that doesn’t mean that everything he does/says is wonderful and above reproach, he can certainly be ‘prissy’ at times ( and being him, probably knows it!)?

I support all teams - but never in the Six Nations

I have never thought of myself as British, no reason, just never have from childhood , don't have a problem with being British.

When did Alan Bennett say he was ashamed of being English? This is a genuine question, as I am a great admirer. I remember him saying he was briefly ashamed at the time of the Iraq invasion, and that he went through what he described as a prissy period of not letting Brexiters have selfies.

I'm afraid he term Little Englander is bigoted, however much it's cloaked in niceties. And so is being consistently scathing and hostile towards people from another nation, whether your best friend is one of them or not.

I am proud to be English and British (actually I would always describe myself as British) . I support any of "our" teams in sport and living where I do I feel closer to Scotland than I do to the South of England . I'm not sure why there needs to be a feeling of "them and us" when we are all British.

The great playwright Alan Bennett may feel ashamed to be British if he likes, as may you.Most people do not.
There are xenophobic and downright racist people in Britain of all types ( not only white btw) and you could say this of any country anywhere in Europe, probably the whole world.
We can only really be ashamed of our own actions, and in Britain, which is very multicultural, thankfully most people rub along together well enough.

Baffling why some English think others believe they shouldn't have pride in their country. It is the EDL and their like who used your flag not with pride but their racist rants.
It is English people who complain they want the same pride in their flag as the other three countries in the UK do.

So the complaint seems to be many English can't feel,pride in their flag because some English have used it for the nastiest of reasons.

I have at times said 'little englander' I am not a bigot even though POGS has declared me so.

For me a little englander is the person who has said on this forum - the Welsh have free prescriptions but we give them the money ! The we being England .

Or the small group of English people who moved here , complained that one church service a month was in Welsh which meant they couldn't take Part !

BBC sports commentators who reel of the medal tally with - two more medals for England, followed by the other three countries medal tally.

The difference in attitude to Tim Henman and Andy Murray.

Just who are the bigots ?

Alan Bennett is a national treasure and I'm not surprised he feels like that. I'm not ashamed to be British, though I identify as English. I'm fed up about the way the referendum was conducted and the result but there we go. All we can do now is work towards the best deal which includes holding on to stuff as far as is possible.

Pogs, I'm another one who struggles with the notion that everyone has the right and indeed should feel pride in their country - everyone except the English. If we love our country, which I do, we're often seen as supporting the actions of our ancestors who colonised so many countries. Yes, they did, so did the French, Spanish, Germans, Portuguese etc. No one would see that as a good thing now but it happened and we all have to try and make sure we learn from our history.

The great play-write Alan Bennett is ashamed to be British because of Brexit and the consequence attitude to foreigners.

Well said POGS you explained exactly how I feel.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/incredible-pictures-show-welsh-village-10284365

paddyann

" being a nationalist isn't being bigoted or racist Pogs "

In my opinion being a nationalist is not racist nor bigoted also. I have not said it is .

I am however of the opinion it is tantamount to being so if a person believes only 'Their' country should have the right to display 'Their' flag and state another countries flag belongs to the right wing , racist , xenophobe. It is also bigoted/intolerant to not allow others to have the same feelings about 'Their' country as they do and also find it acceptable to use derogatory terms like 'Little Englander' (no matter how much they protest they believe it is not intentionally used in derogatory manner it does not wash!).

being a nationalist isn't being bigoted or racist Pogs its simply that we want to be in control of our OWN country ,not have Westminster foist their wishes on us.I'm not anti English by any means ..just anti westminster and most nationalists are the same.We have english families and friends so it would be a bit odd to hate them ....wouldn't it?Having control of our own country doesn't make those family and friends any less important.I have never been racist about anyone nor will I be when my own GD is English ...but why should I be happy that 80% of( English )MP's in WM have more say about what happens in my land than the people who live work and contribute here ?

I am not in the least bit ashamed of being British or English.

Why would I be?

Why should I be?

The irony is when someone calls the English racist, bigots but fail to see that is exactly what they are being always eludes me to be honest.

When someone says ' only ' the flags of St George and the Union Jack/Flag when flown are thought to be symbols the English are ALL rabid right wing ,racists but ' other' national flags show nothing other than 'Pride in their country' makes me think they don't understand what 'irony' means.

The term ' Little Englander ' is used to belittle a race of people and is commonly accepted as meaning ' xenophobic', ' overly nationalistic ' , 'ignorant '. The 'irony' is those who say it do not understand nor accept they are consumed by bigotry and racism themselves or they would not use / say the term.

If that is the level of thought by ' the many ' then I wonder why any any English man, woman or child ever falls in love with somebody , resides in, goes on holiday to, works in countries ,such as Scotland, Wales or Ireland, if that is their opinion .

If that is the level of thought by ' the many' then I wonder why any Scottish, Welsh, Irish man, woman, child ever falls in love with somebody , resides in, goes on holiday to, works in England, if that is their opinion.

Ah but wait a minute!

People from England, Scotland , Wales and Ireland 'DO' fall in love with others from outside of their own country, they do happily reside in , enjoy holidays to, find employment in countries that are not of their birth.

Thank goodness bigotry is not shared by ' the many ' whether they be English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh .

Thank goodness most people just simply want live happily with friends, family, work colleagues and don't give a stuff about which country they are from and they show every day how bigotry and racism will belong to ' just the few '.

Perhaps the all-important "if" means that it doesn't matter whether I understand it anyhow. Phew ?

I don't uderstand what you mean by your last comment, tegan.

Seems to me that, if being British is like winning the lottery, being born in Ireland[North or South] is like getting the booby prize [not that anyone here seems to care much...].

NI is part of the British Isles (as is the Republic of Ireland) but it is not part of Britain. It is part of the UK.

But we cannot wipe out history, Scotland and Wales and NI have had to fight to be recognised as part of Britain not three bits of land stuck onto England, ok NI isn't stuck on but you know what I mean . Not starting up the old battles again but I think this explains why the flags are so loved,

I am not ashamed to be British at all.
I despise the louts that give us a bad press but they don't speak for the vast majority of us.
We celebrate St. George's day in our village but the day doesn't get noticed by the general population. We don't don our bovver boots and sing nationalistic songs. Just put on a meal and judge the George and the dragon colouring competition.
Very tame actually. We also have a burns night so which some of us foreigners have the cheek to go to!
I've just read that a British lawyer has been shot dead by a new-nazi in Germany who hated foreigners. We don't have the monopoly on ignorant nutters.
When I was young, many years ago we went home to Britain on leave. The scots always went home to Scotland. paddyanne can't help it-she was brought up that way!

Elegran
Thank you for explaining your reply @ 16.10.

Oh, I see now, When you said you would substitute English for UK, it seemed you were jettisoning UK in favour of England. That exchange phrase is always very ambiguous as to which is old and which is new.