To be ashamed of being British?

But, Petra does your "belief in" your country really stop dead at the borders of Wales and Scotland? I can't believe that you put no value on someone born and living a mile further North or West?

I agree that we maybe need another National Anthem; after all the existing one is proclaiming victory over the Scots an awfully long time ago!

I wonder why the flag has been appropriated by the right wing ( of all hues)? Just my opinion of course, and I don't wish to start a political argument, just curious. There was a great deal of national pride, during the London Olympics and that was wonderful to see and experience, pride in what GB had achieved in the fields of medicine, engineering, literature etc.

Well said petra.

As Cecil Rhodes said: To be born English is to win first prize in the lottery of life.
I would substitute English for the United Kingdom because that's what I believe in.

"God Save Our King" was written in a hurry during the civil war, when Charles 1 was under threat. It is high time we had a new one that celebrates our country as a whole.

We should reclaim our flag really, but it'd take some guts to fly it in many areas. I do have one - we used to hang it out of the upstairs window when the England football team played when DS was a child. Even then I used to whip it back in pretty sharpish when the match ended.

We need another anthem which celebrates our love of our country (and there is a lot to love!) without belittling any other country, and without praising just one family

Exactly Elegran

I am proud to be British and English Baggs and really wouldn't want to be anything else, but I feel quite sad that anyone daring to fly the English flag should be made to feel like (or described as) a "right wing thug" (to quote another post) when its perfectly okay for anyone to fly a Scottish, Welsh or Irish flag.

One of the contestants for a British anthem is Handel's "Hail the conquering hero comes" from Judas Maccabeo - a great tune, but not exactly one for a United Kingdom, and definitely English, not British. It was written by Handel to celebrate the return of the Duke of Cumberland (Cumberland the Butcher) after the slaughter at Culloden.

Sounds good though. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p1BedwyFKY

Gilly I believe "God save the king/queen" DID start off as a personal anthem for the monarch, and then was used as a national anthem. We need another anthem which celebrates our love of our country (and there is a lot to love!) without belittling any other country, and without praising just one family.

Good question Baggs, I'd like to know what the preference of nationality is too.

I wonder what someone who is ashamed to be British would rather be instead.

100% increase of something not very big to begin with still makes a very small percentage. Any increase in racism is bad but we need to see it in perspective. Britain may contain some racists but it is not a racist country.

Someone said we should challenge racism. I agree. Only I've never witnessed any racism in my whole life so I've never been able to challenge any.

I'm not, even in the teeniest weeniest bit, ashamed to be British.

So those people who call anyone who dares to fly an English flag "Little Englanders" (and much worse) are effectively racist bigots themselves?

Like others, I am not ashamed to be British just because a minority of British people are ignorant racists, any more than a Muslim should feel ashamed to be muslim because a minority in that culture are linked to terrorism.
I'm not English but I find it incredibly sad that some English people feel that their national flag is a symbol of bigoted, right wing nationalists "covered in tattoos and a shaven head". Perhaps you could reclaim your national flag, fly it with pride and demonstrate that it is something to be proud of. If you leave it only for the narrow minded, ultra right wingers to own, you only have yourself to blame if it continues to be percieved in that light. Reclaim it!

When my friend and I got lost on our way to an Asian restaurant for a works do, she pulled off the road and screeched to a halt outside a council house hosting a barbecue, with bare chests, England flags, skinheads, a dog on a string - it couldn't have been more stereotypical. I really didn't want to ask directions from them, as she sat there in her sari, but she shouted them over and they couldn't have been more helpful. She gave me a proper telling off for being prejudiced and judging by appearances. She was right.

Anyone who has been to France will see the tricolor everywhere, similarly the stars and stripes in America two examples. of different nations who have no problem with overt displays of nationalism. Scotland and Wales are equally happy to display the St Andrew's flag and Welsh Dragon respectively. I have even seen the Confederate flag in America, which I do think is very questionable, not sure why it's even allowed there given the conatations it has particularly in the deep south and the fact that country has very real problems with race relations. Lets face it the Union Jack was hijackd by the National Front at some stage, I'm not sure about the St George flag, but for some unfortuantely it's still synonymous with overt racism. I personally wouldn't fly a flag, but come international football matches and the like then various flags are visible. I don't think people should be castigated for having national pride most of us got behind Team GB during the olympics inspite of the EU trying to add our tally into some non existant EU pot that didn't seem to be recognised by any of its member states. National pride is not perculiar to any country it's there in most nations. Lets not forget how the French tricolor was projected on to buildings here after the terrorist attacks in France to show solidarity. The flag is a symbol of a country and shouldn't always be viewed in a negative way.

Go for it lemon , I would do it for my flag , well not the horse riding , those days are no more.

I understand Gilly and when I see it the louts come to my mind, it saddens me that you can't feel the emotions I feel when the Welsh flag is flying , I feel a mixture of love, pride, belonging.b

Could it be England paid too much pride in the union flag for so many years, when I was a child I thought it was the English flag . We hear queen of England , Americans visiting England not the U.K. Much fault lies in the past as well as the louts of today

Yay! Good idea Annie I think I shall wrap myself in it ( wearing nothing underneath a la Lady Godiva) and ride through my nearest town on a white horse ( if I can find a flag and horse large enough.)?

Well I think GillT57's comments (below) just about sum it up how we, English are made to feel Anniebach

I don't know why I feel this way, but when I see a flag of St.George flying from a house I imagine shaven heads, tattoos and extreme right wing nationalism, I feel sad that the flag has been misappropriated to represent something which I dislike. I do not feel the same way when I see a Scottish, Welsh or Irish flag flying, just assume that the person living there is proud of their nationality

Sad isn't it?

Do others make you feel ashamed of the English flag or do you feel uncomfortable because it reminds you of the louts who use it not with pride but as a sort of weapon . Take it back ?

I hate really dislike "our" national anthem too GillT57 which in my opinion is not a national anthem at all, its a royal family anthem (and that's another thread entirely).

I really can't understand why the English been made to feel that they are "right wing nationalists" if they fly the English flag?

For example my DGS (7) eats, sleeps and breathes football. (Not sure who he takes after mind you) but is it fair that because of the narrow-mindedness of some, he should not be proud to wave the flag of the English team during the forthcoming world cup?

Agreed gillybob, and I don't know why I feel this way, but when I see a flag of St.George flying from a house I imagine shaven heads, tattoos and extreme right wing nationalism, I feel sad that the flag has been misappropriated to represent something which I dislike. I do not feel the same way when I see a Scottish, Welsh or Irish flag flying, just assume that the person living there is proud of their nationality, but I do not classify them in my own mind as narrow minded nationalists. Odd isn't it. I live here because I like it and it suits me, but would happily move to another country if I felt as happy and safe there as I do here, I have no great allegiance to GB, and have always, even since childhood, felt uncomfortable with the singing of the National Anthem and heartily dislike the braying of the last night of the Proms with all the nationalist type music. I do not wish to offend anyone with this btw.

I agree with almost all of your post GillT57 but wonder why we should be made to feel ashamed for wanting to fly the English flag when it seems okay to be proud to be Scottish, Welsh, Irish and fly their flags?

Not that I do, fly a flag mind you. I just wondered.

I have always thought of myself as being British anyway.

GillT57: very much my thoughts, too.