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Seems I was unreasonable ... no I don’t think so

(52 Posts)
Ashmore32 Sat 28-Oct-17 22:04:15

My last post I asked if I was being unreasonable to withhold news of a step sister to my first adopted taken under false pretences to cover up NHS staff caused injury later blamed on the Parents.
Grand daughter no 2 has arrived and my son has decided that ‘we’ will not disclose this information ourselves, but between my sons ex partner and/ or SS, the adoptive parent will no doubt find out. She won’t be able to have her cake and eat it any longer. We are often told we have no rights to know more than the adoptive parent tells us. That works both ways.
If my adopted lost grand daughter wants to know more she will have to come looking.

IngeJones Thu 02-Nov-17 11:16:16

Yes the problem with the original post was too many ambiguous pronouns.

BlueBelle Wed 01-Nov-17 05:52:45

yes Mawboon you are right .... Nelliemoster I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all just meaning to point out that people will keep commenting and speculating because that’s what the original poster invited
I think this is a very very sad thread and definitely agree there is no point in chewing it over as none of us are any further forward than we were at the very beginning

I hope the little girl grows with love and care with no knowledge of this horrible start

annsixty Wed 01-Nov-17 03:50:07

And certainly no love for the child who is the innocent one in this sad story.
I hope she has a happy life with loving and supportive parents and never knows the bitterness her GM feels towards her.

MawBroon Wed 01-Nov-17 03:34:15

I think Bluebelle and Nelliemoser , you are basically coming from the same place and I agree, in that there is little anybody who does not know the details and background can usefully add.
To the question Was OP being unreasonable? Is it rhetorical? We can only give a personal opinion.
I am still not sure who the “She” in the original post refers to - the child? (You can’t blame her) the adoptive mother? (Why not say so?) or the ex- partner?
So a very confused situation containing much bitterness and anger. sad

Nelliemoser Wed 01-Nov-17 00:04:02

Bluebelle I did not start this thread! Why are you suggesting it should be up to me to stop people from making further comments?

I had not posted again on this until tonight. My previous post was on Sunday. and it is now very late on Tuesday.
There are a lot of other people who have been trying to establish what has gone on.
My first post was just me trying to clarify OPs situation.
My second was to suggest why the child should be allowed to know of a half sibling.
It is really not up to me to follow it up. ( To start with when I first saw the OP I had no clear idea from her of what her exact situation was. )

It quickly became obvious that this was going to be an extremely sensitive and distressing situation. To keep chewing it over on this forum is likely to endanger this confidentiality.

BlueBelle Tue 31-Oct-17 21:54:21

I m still not much further forward I m afraid Ashmore your story is so complex and muddled and not very understandable to me
There feels blame going towards grand daughter number one who can have done nothing wrong except being born into some kind of chaotic life bless her
You sound very bitter towards the adopters but as we know nothing about the background to the story it’s really pointless asking for our opinion
You must do what you want to do in this sorry story I feel upset for your granddaughter but hopefully she will lead a happy new life and never know too much about all this bitterness and blame
I can’t feel any compassion towards her in your words and I have no understanding of that at all

Ashmore32 Tue 31-Oct-17 21:26:19

This could all have been so different if Lies had not been told, promises not been broken. A second grand child who will know about her half sister, who will be forbidden from access even when 18 if the lies told to the first grandchild are believed and she refuses contact.
Yet should SS know and tell the Adopter who then tells her Legal daughter, who then wants to meet her sister before she is 18 which is possible.
We tell and before we know it a complete stranger has full access to our lives and we know nothing about them.
So easy to stand on the outside looking in. I would love my Grandchildren to know each other, but on even terms. The secrets are with the Adopters. It seems you think they should have open access to our world. You are happy for us to have to disclose all, while get nothing in return. I respect my sons wishes and his new partners wishes not to engage with a woman who refused to keep promises of photographs and accept cards. Who is more than happy to accept he web of lies and deceit fed to her by Social Services. If she never comes to find her father to seek answers, or more like the truth, why would she want anything to do with a sister she has never known and will never know unless she comes looking. If she never does, she has not missed anything

MawBroon Tue 31-Oct-17 09:06:45

LIke Inge Jones I am finding the complex issues here hard to grasp and I can’t follow the logic.
But I wish you all well, especially these two little girls who have had no responsibility for the situation they are in.
I do worry about secrets in families though and know of so many cases where lives were made unnecessarily complicated and people have lost out on love and sibling relationships.

Yogagirl Tue 31-Oct-17 08:47:56

Ashmore I feel your pain flowers I hope you get reunited with your GD when she's 18yrs, I know that has a pain all to it's self thlsad God Bless

IngeJones Mon 30-Oct-17 13:58:41

Do you know I have no idea what this is about. Too many oblique references and hints. Needs to be spelled out more clearly before I can contribute smile

ElaineI Mon 30-Oct-17 08:03:56

Is it possible for you to keep a box yourself with family memories etc for when your adoptive grandchild/children do come seeking information? I believe that once children are 18 it is much more common nowadays for adopted children to seek information about their birth family.

Imperfect27 Mon 30-Oct-17 05:44:46

Ashmore I cannot imagine the pain you have been through in losing your first GD from your family and experiencing further hurt and loss through subsequent lack of information. You seem to be see-sawing through grief, part of you wanting to sever all links, part of you still hurting afresh over the decision of sharing new, significant news. This is your personal battle, but I think it would be wrong to withhold information out of anger, mistrust and possible spite - that is hurt winning. Of course GD1 has a right to know that she has a blood relative. If it is within your keeping to impart that news in a timely way, it would seem unreasonable to me to keep silent. There will come a time when she may search and want to find her way back to you and your family - why put further impediments in the way of that? I hope you can find peace about sharing this current development for her future benefit.

BlueBelle Mon 30-Oct-17 05:13:07

Nelliemoster maybe you should ask the original poster to stop posting threads inviting people to advice her on her very complex and unexplainable problems than saying whoa to those trying to be supportive

FarNorth Sun 29-Oct-17 23:45:14

We weren't all speculating. Some people were trying to understand what the OP posted.
Maw is probably right that details have to be withheld to protect privacy.

Nelliemoser Sun 29-Oct-17 23:05:29

WOAH there!
We should all stop speculating on what might or might not have happened in this situation. Sad for all concerned particularly Ashmore32 .

In the circumstances childrens services do try to keep any child protection and adoption situations as confidential as possible.
If we start discussing it on an open forum we could potentially do some harm.

This is all that people need to know.
"There have been difficulties with regard to the situation of this child that have made the courts take the decision that it is in the best interest of the child to arrange an adoption."

For the sake of the birth parents and the adoptive parents can we please all stop speculating on the potential reasons for the courts actions.
The less gossip the better.

MawBroon Sun 29-Oct-17 22:02:00

I think the danger of not giving enough information to identify the people involved has resulted in a very incomplete and confusing scenario which makes it very hard to understand what has been going on, let alone comment, if indeed Asmore is inviting our comments.

Eglantine21 Sun 29-Oct-17 21:44:28

Me neither Anya. And I want to, having been very amicably and successfully adopted myself, with constant contact with all my eight grandparents! But if Ashmore wants more Han just to let loose with her anger she has to explain more.

Anya Sun 29-Oct-17 21:14:37

Not ‘understandable ranting’ I can’t understand any of it!

judypark Sun 29-Oct-17 21:03:22

I am puzzled by the OPs statement that the "NHS staff caused injury and later blamed the parents" what's all that about?
Why was the child removed from the family? These decisions are not taken lightly.
A lot of understandable ranting Ashmore but not much info.

BlueBelle Sun 29-Oct-17 21:01:37

I m truely puzzled too Bluegal a lot of it doesn’t make sense at all and that sentence is unfathomable

FarNorth Sun 29-Oct-17 20:59:17

New baby born on the day before or after the adopted child's birthday?

Bluegal Sun 29-Oct-17 20:51:01

Sorry, this post has really got me - am acting detective again now.

Ashmore32 What does this statement from you actually mean. It doesn't make sense:


"The most she would get if they made a fuss would be girl and birthday made all the more heartbreaking in the hours not days difference of dates. This is primarily my sons wishes and I agree with them"

What do you mean about difference in hours and dates?

Sorry, don't elaborate if you don't want to, but unless us GN'ers can understand its so hard to get on board and give advice.

Deedaa Sun 29-Oct-17 20:15:31

I've got no experience of adoption, but it seems to me that it would be very unsettling for the adopted child if her real grandmother kept trying to make contact. Surely she now has a family and presumably uncles and aunts and perhaps cousins and grandparents. I don't think you can keep saying "But she's mine too" If, by the time she's 18, she wants to find out about her birth family then the information should be available to her.

Bluegal Sun 29-Oct-17 17:37:51

I don't really understand all this either. Did you KNOW the adoptive parent prior to the adoption Ashmore? You do seem to be very very angry at the adopted parent for some reason? So much so I am wondering if you feel she had anything to do with your GD being taken into care in the first place?

Secondly, you hint that your GD was taken into care by SS because of lies and cover ups from the NHS. Does that mean, you believe she had an accident whilst in their care?
Did you/son consult legal advice on this?

I do know that generally every avenue is explored to keep a child with their birth families if at all possible. Children are rarely put up for adoption as a first resort. Fostering is generally the first resort and adoption the last.

I don't think adoptive parents are under any obligation to maintain contact with birth families but if they agree to it then its fine. Sounds like the adoptive parent HAS tried to keep you informed in some way albeit through photos and such. Perhaps you are expecting too much of her?

Not knowing the background or all details its hard to give accurate advice other than to agree with others and that the two sisters should be told about each other from a very early age so it doesn't come as a shock to them later in life.

I do hope you sort it out in the interests of the children but also for your own peace of mind. Bitterness and hatred is self destroying.

Madgran77 Sun 29-Oct-17 16:44:33

Also ...why is your son ( her dad?) so against her knowing? Would he reject her if she came looking for him....?