to think kids should be allowed to believe in Father Christmas

Did your grandkids believe in Santa before that Tinytwo or have they always known it's just a game that adults like to play with children?

Interesting, JackyB

I think it's all part & parcel of the festive spirit which past & present generations have enjoyed & we have all managed to cope when we 'found out he wasn't actually real . Is it really so different than a story book, a play, or a film. ? As children we develop & understand in stages as we grow. Now where IS that money tree ?Merry, happy Christmas, Yuletide etc etc to everyone what ever you perceive it to be ?

Yes, Bella - the presents are supposed to be opened on Christmas Eve - after 4 pm the shops shut and everyone is supposed to be in their best clothes, the house cleaned, the tree decorated, and everyone in a good mood with a cup of coffee and cakes on the table. I doubt anyone has ever managed that unless they had a house full of helpful elves.

On 6 December the children also get a load of presents for Nikolaus - they are supposed to put out a boot or a shoe over night and it is filled with small things like nuts and tangerines, but this has got out of hand and some will get a table full of goodies - toys and games, books, clothes and sweets or even money.

Years ago, we had real candles, as did my parents-in-law, in addition to the advent wreath, which by the end of advent was pretty dry and with four candles almost burnt down, was a great danger and often a cause of house fires.

Anyway, sorry, this is nothing to do with the topic of the thread. It does, however, show that there are big differences in the traditions, and where they meet and contradict, small children can get confused, and from the age of about 4, aren't really convinced by anything.

It doesn't make them any the less imaginative or child-like, though. They accept it as just another story.

Is Kristkind on 24 December jackyB? In Italy they also celebrate St Nicholas on 6 December, and La Befana comes on 6 January, (the Epiphany)., bearing simple gifts each time. When my husband was at home live candles were put on the tree on Christmas Eve. Bit of a H and S issue methinks, but no doubt fun at the time.

Sorry, haven't read the entire thread yet, and I may repeat what others have written:

I don't remember ever believing in Father Christmas as a child and I never really encouraged it in my children - the subject never really came up.

As they were growing up in 2 cultures with different traditions, it would be hard to explain the discrepancies to them. In Germany it is the Christkind (Christ-child) who brings the presents. Not even a 2-year-old can possibly believe that, surely.

I will observe with interest how they do it with their own children.

Ditto, Jeanie - my two were the same, and I and my siblings before them.

Of course parents are free to do as they see fit, but I still think it mean and misery-guts to deny them that magic for what is such a very few years anyway.

Truth and lies or stories Not every one, even practising Christians believe in the virgin birth and good few other of the miracles suggested in the new testament.
Where does that sit as truth or lies or just stories within the stories of the bible or of father Chistmas .
The fundamentalists take this as real, miracles and all.

It does not really matter as long and these obvious discrepancies are just thought of as the sort of story telling to get the messages that the early Christians were preaching. Think of the parables from the sermon on the mount just stories putting across a message.

So what about St Nicholas (aka father Christmas) bringing small pickled boys back to life. I think that is just a traditional story. (Not sure it is even in the bible).
That is probably too much for any Father Christmas myth.

(St Nicholas did not pickle the boys himself.) They were allegedly killed and pickled in a barrel ready to eat during a terrible famine. Just stories with a message.

We always did the Father Christmas thing when the children were small. The drink went on the step for FC with an apple for the reindeer.
My memories are of the children running into our bedroom Christmas morning and saying he's been he's been and jumping onto our bed with the shear joy of it all.
They just learn as they get older it's just a tradition.
Children are young for such a short time why take this joy away from them.

It’s a real shame.I feel it is robbing children of a kind of magic which is only available in childhood. Alright, it is important to be honest with children but they soon realise that their parents were providing this story to generate fun and memories they will have all their lives. I am so grateful that my parents lied to me.

I used to tell my children that I had Xray eyes and knew when they were up to mischief.

Now does that get listed by those who have this strict "must not tell children stories and myths" as being lied to?

Of course Father Christmas is real - he still comes to everybody in this house!
He even visited my dds' English-speaking school while we were living in a Muslim country in the Gulf. He arrived on a ceremonial camel very kindly lent by the local police force. As he told the children, he'd had to,leave his reindeer at the airport because they didn't like the sand.

Vampirequeen you sound bloody magical

Some families have Father Christmas and some don't. Some families have the parents buy everything and Father Christmas only one present.

Not our household though, we go all out, we have elves too

DS and family live in a house without a chimney, when first GC was a toddler I bought an ornamental key so that Santa could let himself in to the house. DS told me not to even show it as the child would freak at the thought of an old man letting himself into the house during the night.
As children we always had a chimney and put our letter to Santa up there at the beginning of December.

I've just read through recent posts on this thread and I am totally with carolmary in saying SPOT ON VAMPIREQUEEN

Spot-on Vampirequeen!

our oldest child was terrified of Father Christmas so we told her it was a story grown ups liked and no one was coming to our house with gifts except family and friends and she was fine. Our fourth child was also terrified we told him the same but by this time his older sisters had bought into the whole thing with no encouragement at all from us and so their cries on Christmas morning of "He's been" convinced our son we had been lying!! He would never put a stocking on his bed it had to stay outside his firmly shut door (The only night of the year it was shut) So not all children need to believe in Father Christmas and for some its not a happy experience.

Bit confused here. Are you annoyed she told them there is no Father Christmas or is she saying you can't take them to see Father Christmas.

The 1st is her choice and I am sure they will get presents

In either case you can still ask if you can give them a Christmas Day out as others have suggested.

Oh how ridiculous is this conversation Teaching children not to lie , tell children the truth - ITS Make believe/imagination , I don’t think over the generations anybody has been harmed by Santa stories, which normally relate to kindness, sharing and loving . ! I do agree it’s up to individuals when and what they say to their children but the world is serious and difficult enough for kids without ruining the only bit of magic they will ever get ?????.

It may be that your "Stinker" of a DIL is not happy with the the origin of the present day Father Christmas in his red garb was the invention of An illustrator in 1930 to promote Coca Cola.

As a family, we have always steered away from grottos as we considered them overpriced tat, especially if the bloke reeked of tobacco, but have said to the children that they are just Santa's helpers anyway as he can't be everywhere at the same time. My granddaughter goes to a Church of England school and they have a great guy who dresses as Santa every year at their school fete. He knows a lot of the kids in the village so is often able to say something personal to them ( like 'look after your baby brother') and they are amazed that he knows this stuff, even the year 6s.

My granddaughter ( 6 ) has recently asked if vampires and trolls are real and my daughter discussed it with me and I suggested we say that we, personally, had never seen any ourselves but we had seen dwarves (in a panto) to steer the conversation away! She hasn't mentioned the (non) existence of Father Christmas yet but she's planning on how much money the tooth fairy will bring in total for all her teeth.

She says at school that, when they discuss religion in assembly, the vicar tells them that some people believe in God and others don't, their choice. The vicar is a modern one and a family friend too and my elder daughter does go to services often for the social aspect. My SiL's view is 'use it or lose it'. I don't go with them except if my granddaughter is performing. I am an atheist so she knows I don't believe but I tell her I believe in other things like aliens which others might consider not real.

I do believe in upholding traditions though if it is part of a country's culture. If the satellite with the red light is coming overhead on Christmas Eve, we like to pretend that's Santa's sleigh. I find that quite emotional as it's 'proof' to a child. It wasn't in our time zone last year on Christmas Eve but we saw it about 7pm the year before. Not sure for this year- I will have to check online. I hope the innocence will continue for as long as possible but it will still be acknowledged as a family tradition like decorating the tree long after the grandchildren grow up.

l only had girls so, luckily, no evil DiLs to content with!!! and we are all on the same page with childrearing ideas mostly. My younger daughter is now pregnant and so it continues.

Tiny Two the clue is in your question.....she is their MOTHER. Her kids, her rules. Sounds like you just don't like your DIL and she perhaps couldnt do right for you even if she bent over backwards?

Why attack the OP in this way?

Father Christmas is real but you have to believe in him or his magic doesn't work and he can't get into your house. That's why he doesn't usually come to older, more cynical people. He still comes to my house.

Of course the Father Christmas's you see in shops etc. aren't the real Father Christmas. They're his helpers because let's be honest the man has far too much to do on the run up to Christmas to find the time to sit in a grotto. They pass messages on to him.

The naughty or nice list is an ongoing work which is undertaken mainly by fairies. They fly all over the world looking for good or bad behaviour. From about October onwards you can see where they've been because they colour the evening sky red.

If you're really lucky as the nights get darker you may see Father Christmas and the reindeers training. After all you can't expect them to get around the world in one night if they don't. You won't actually see Father Christmas and the sleigh but you may see Rudolph's red nose flashing in the dark sky.

Just ask the kids if they still want to go, or do anything something else together. We have to accept others parenting often differs to our own and often have to bite out tongues!

Sad that kids have magic taken out of their lives early - still fsirly certain that the jolly man in red with a sledge pulled by reindeer does exist!