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Great Exhibition of the North- Tainted?

(72 Posts)
trisher Tue 06-Mar-18 10:37:39

The GEOTN will take place in the summer of this year. It has recently come to the public's notice that a major funder is BAE Systems the company responsible for selling guidance systems to Saudi Arabia which are being used in planes bombing Yemen. One performer and several creatives have already dropped out. The Sage performance space and the Baltic Art Gallery have both stated publicly that their funding will be only from the Arts Council. There is an on-line petition for GEOTN to refuse the funding. I have signed petitions and written letters to try and stop the BAE sales and so I feel I cannot support any of this event while the BAE funding remains. What do other GNers think and what would they do?
Please sign if you agree with me.

harrigran Thu 08-Mar-18 09:39:42

Well said gilly, perceptive posts.
@dj All they wanted was a bit of cheap advertising
DH and I laughed out loud and then we realised OMG this woman thinks she is making a serious statement.

mcem Thu 08-Mar-18 09:49:10

I too signed before I saw this thread.
I find the argument that others will sell the arms if we don't, is quite unacceptable but note that it's a line TM is using.
I also hope that no poster has to see family members working in the arms industry.
It's disingenuous to say the responsibility is with those whose deploy the arms - much the same as Trump and the NRA saying that guns don't kill!

Joelsnan Thu 08-Mar-18 09:55:36

Isn't Saudi supporting the government of Yemen fighting against what they consider to be terrorist Houthi's supported by Iran?
If ISIS (or other) became a credible disruptive force within UK wouldn't we hope for external help as Europe did not long ago?
All wars are horrendous but many reasons for them are not clear cut.

Anniebach Thu 08-Mar-18 10:04:32

It is so easy to be noble about this, the IRA used arms yet Corbyn supported them.

Do we condemn those who work in breweries etc , alcohol is one of the two main reasons for people sleeping on the streets

trisher Thu 08-Mar-18 10:25:55

Let's bring the argument to a personal analogy. Suppose you had an aquaintance who you knew was violent,abusive and cruel. You were out with him when he picked a fight with someone, you then passed him a knife and he killed not only the man but his wife and children. You would be an accessory to murder and it wouldn' t be any sort of defence fo you to claim there were other people who could have handed him a knife. Supplying the means of killing is as bad as doing the killing.

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 11:20:03

Do you really think BAE need “cheap advertising “ Dj . grin I mean really ?

Joelsnan Thu 08-Mar-18 11:38:35

Personal analogies are not really appropriate in a war situation. Would that it could be so easy.

trisher Thu 08-Mar-18 11:49:19

It isn't so much abut advertising as about trying to clean up their image, which has been a spectacular failure. Incidentally one of the exhibits in this event will be John Lennon's white piano. The one he played Imagine on "Imagine all the people living life in peace"
BAE really were not suitable funders.

durhamjen Thu 08-Mar-18 15:36:27

In a statement, BAE said it was supporting the Great Exhibition of the North "as part of its commitment to address the UK skills shortage by encouraging more young people to consider science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM) careers".

Is that not advertising for BAE?

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 16:01:36

No it isn’t advertising, it is exactly as it states .... encouraging young people to consider a career in Engineering.

Advertising would be on the lines of “special today. Buy one get one free on all tanks “ .

durhamjen Thu 08-Mar-18 16:13:44

Why do you think the BBC would not allow product placement on programmes? It was so there could be no subliminal advertising on their programmes.
Seeing a bottle or can of Heinz anything would make other manufacturers of beans or sauces be aggrieved and take the BBC to court for advertising.
The name BAE would have been up all over the exhibition. Free notepads, free pens, and fridge magnets.
That isn't advertising, isn't it?

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 16:37:11

No it isn’t, it is what as know in business as promotion .

trisher Thu 08-Mar-18 16:56:38

Meaning of promotion-please note synonyms!
activity that supports or encourages a cause, venture, or aim.
"the promotion of cultural and racial diversity"
synonyms:encouragement, furtherance, furthering, advancement, assistance, aid, help, contribution to, fostering, boosting, stimulation, development; More
the publicizing of a product, organization, or venture so as to increase sales or public awareness.
"a sales promotion company"
synonyms:advertising, publicity, marketing, selling, advertising/publicity campaign, propaganda, publicization;

durhamjen Thu 08-Mar-18 17:02:48

Every ruler in my house has the name of a different builder on it.
I wouldn't have so many if my husband hadn't been an architect.
It's advertising.

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 17:07:34

Well we give pens, rulers, key rings etc. Out to students ( who I’m pretty sure don’t want to buy from us). There is a difference . Anyway we are splitting hairs . BAE have pulled out their sponsorship of the event. Are you jumping for joy? Where next? Get them closed down ? Put thousands out of work? hmm

trisher Thu 08-Mar-18 17:13:34

Yes it's advertising - isn't it tax deductable as well?
Not close them down but certainly stop them supplying Saudi Arabia. Do you not care about the people in Yemen gillybob?

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 17:15:19

Oh no of course I don’t trisher . What a stupid insulting question.

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 17:16:31

Sponsorship is tax deductible. Why do you think companies sponsor football clubs, formula 1 and just about every event you can imagine .

durhamjen Thu 08-Mar-18 17:26:31

Do you think it is sensible for the government to get £36 million from BAE systems in tax, then pay £139 million to Yemen in aid because BAE missiles have destroyed homes and killed more civilians than forces?

durhamjen Thu 08-Mar-18 17:29:10

When companies sponsor footbal clubs, you see their banners all round the grounds.
That's advertising. Even better when the match is on television.
The Great Exhibition of the North will be on television - good adverising for any company which promotes it.

gillybob Thu 08-Mar-18 17:33:20

Are you saying that seeing a BAE trademark or whatever will make someone want to rush out and order some missiles or maybe a warship or two ?

mcem Thu 08-Mar-18 18:24:07

I'd say no to that question but do see it as a PR exercise where more gullible susceptible viewers would think that such sponsors are "the good guys" because they're supporting sporting events.

gillybob Sat 10-Mar-18 11:58:04

Oh dear . Im visiting the Riverside Museum in Glasgow. A brilliant and free museum . Made possible by generous donations. Shall I protest at the door ? Or let the thousands of people enjoying a free day in a wonderful museum just enjoy themselves ?

durhamjen Sat 10-Mar-18 12:04:07

Don't be silly, gillybob. If you wouldn't protest at BAE at the Great Exhibition of the North, why would you protest at them in Glasgow.

I wonder if your really bad apprentice would rather work for BAE than for your company?

gillybob Sat 10-Mar-18 12:10:18

grin you’re hysterical dj

Not sure what my apprentice has to do with this argument ( you’ve had your little book out again haven’t you ?) but he wouldn’t last 30 seconds in a company such as BAE .

I was just wondering if the people who condemn BAE as evil would like to see brilliant museums such as this one closed down ?