to make children visit GPs

I would just all go as a family.
Its pretty obvious that the whole situation is spiralling out of control, and presumably the children are picking up on this.
You'll all end up estranged if it carries on.

MissA, it doesn't make their behaviour any better if I go. They still behave the same way.

I am worried me being there may actually make it worse as when I have been there they have clung to me and asked to go home. MIL is also openly unpleasant to me and I do not think that is going to help their relationship with her if they see it on the regular.

I am seriously out of ideas here. Did anyone else encounter this issue and how did you get round it? I am not willing to tell them they don't have to go as I think they will stop going and then all hell will break loose.

But you're only going sometimes. Your husband is caught in the middle, not knowing what to do for the best, so is losing his temper, and he is having to cope with the children playing up at his parents' on his own, which adds to the stress of it all.
Surely you could all go out for the morning together, and incorporate a visit to the grandparents afterwards, so that you're approaching it with a 'clean slate' mentality.

They are only 2 and 3 . At that age I don't think children would have an opinion about visiting anyone. Maybe they get upset because they sense that you don't like your MIL and so they are fearful. I can't imagine any other reason why they would "refuse to be touched by the GPs". I'd suggest that your husband should invite them to meet him at a local park where they can all do something together, rather than being in their house . Just a thought.

Let OH go on his own.

Well, if she is having twice monthly visitations (visit or appearance of a supernatural being) I am not surprised.

2 and 3 year olds often don't want to be away from their mum, and if one gets upset it must upset the other, which then upsets the husband...

Me trying to put a face on it - which I already do - is not going to work here. I wish it would, but this BS has been going on for twenty years now. She ordered H to cancel our first planned wedding (all deposits lost) because "she was not ready" and a couple years ago phoned him demanding that she have a seperate after-baptism celebration for DD1 to which I was not supposed to come. She also assaulted me on the church steps on my actual wedding day. This is not even 10% of her BS over the years. I cannot have a functioning relationship with someone who repeatedly tells her family that I am "no relation to her".

I am trying not to be the troublesome DIL of many GN stories, so I bend over backwards to get out of her way and let her have the relationship she chooses with her son amd her GC. But she does not want me to have any part of it or frankly acknowledge I exist, so forcing myself into it more is only going to make everything worse. She has repeatedly asked H if when she visits the babies on Christmas Day "can't you just put Gummy out and send her to her mothers". I refuse to be put out of my own home without my children on Christmas Day.

She has repeatedly offered him money to divorce me. I have no idea if she is saying things about me on these visits and the littles are hearing them. The eldest is very sensitive and has said some things to me about me that were unpleasant, but I have just assumed they were things H had said to her about me.

She is effectively estranged from me by her own choice. I don't see what I can do about that. I can't apologise for the fact H refused to live with her and look after till she died, as she told him she wanted him to do. I cannot handle to blowback there will be if the children refuse to have contact with her.

I don't know how to manage this relationship in terms of what I say and do with the children to enable them to have a relationship with her. I feel like I have to enable this relationshop. Am I wrong?

Surely being seen as a united, strong couple who will not be manipulated would help?
All the time you are doing things separately she has the opportunity to drive the wedge further between you.
And that is exactly what's happening.

Could they meet elsewhere from time to time as Stella suggested. This would make it more of a treat for the children and less stressful for your partner.
It sounds like your partner is as stressed as the children so perhaps you need to address this first. I think you all need a break from this cycle of visits and then don't pressure the children into going, in my experience the more you insist the more difficult they will be about it.

That strikes a nerve, MissA.

I know you are right but the truth is this issue is a massive wedge between us.

H has always allowed her to treat me badly to the point of physical violence and has told me she will always be more important to him than I am.

I have come to terms with that but the truth is we cannot present ourselves as a united couple to her. We never have been one. But we have very small children and I have a duty to keep our family together.

I feel like I should have learnt how to do this by now but I just can't get it right.

I don't ask the mum boards for advice any more because their advice is always to go no contact with her and/or divorce. I hope you guys with the benefit of experience have something I haven't tried.

Do you really think it will be different if I go on the visits? She has asked him before not to bring me because she wants "alone time with her family". Should I push back on this? I admit it was easier for me just to yield as H does not want me there either.

Ah, so its a pretty complicated situation, really. What a pity for you
Well, I was thinking your husband was caught up in the middle, wanting you to visit and things to be harmonious.
Do you think he would like that?

Why is anyone going to visit this woman? Have a long sit down with your husband and see if he really wants these visits to continue in their present form.

Listen carefully to what he says, then have a good, in depth discussion. Don’t say he won’t talk about it, it’s up to you to use all your skills to draw him out and get to the root of his feelings.

OH has told me she will always be more important to him than I am.

In the words of Mumsnet, just LTB!

Why is it that so many DiL have problems with Mil and vice versa? At 2 and 3 I would say the kids are picking up on vibes. "Visitation" is a weird way of saying seeing Grandma - is there a court order for visitation rights or is she in prison or something? Either go with (you are her family whether she likes it or not and its plain weird that your H says he doesn't want you there either) and if she complains then no-one goes in the future. She doesn't realise just how lucky she is having GC that you "allow" to visit even though she may have been mean to or about you, their Mother and her sons wife Personally I wouldn't be with a man who allowed anyone be mean to me, and physical violence would have met with a pan over her head, even if it was his mother, but that's just me (providing the kids weren't looking of course!). I think he needs a stern talking to myself and you all need to stop enabling your MiLs poor behaviour, if that's what is really happening .

Luckygirl what's LTB??

"Leave the Bugger"

Ahhh, I see!

we cannot present as one as we have never been a united couple so are you meaning there is trouble in your marriage, immaterial of the mother in law, that also seems compounded by the fact Mumsnet is advising you to divorce
So is the problem partly with the husband and your marriage? I m not sure why you have a 3 and 2 year old and now a third complex pregnancy if your marriage is not stable if your husband has told you his mother will always be more important than you how much more of a realisation do you need? He’s not exactly holding back is he? If he doesn’t love you why on earth keep making babies that will tie you into this abusive family
Why do you HAVE a duty to keep the family together I d run as far as I could reach, to get away from the abusive mother and the abusive son what’s the point in keeping this ‘duty’ if you are exceedingly unhappy and the children are picking up on your unhappiness and are also upset, all in the name of duty
You sound as if your self esteem and confidence is ground into the floor and you are just a little bird trying to do the ‘right thing’ and hide away from everyone in case you upset them

gummybear maybe an option would be meet the MiL and all of you for a meal out, somewhere fun that the children love? Or invite MiL to a meal out for one of the birthdays in the family, and invite another family with children?

This is a normal family thing to do, with less chance for your DH to have to listen to anything he doesn't want to.

The children are obviously picking up on the strained atmosphere so I would tell your your husband that you dont want them to be subjected to it again.When the other adults begin acting their age then you can make new arrangements but until then the kids must come first..Surely as their father he would agree to that.If not I really think you need to go your seperate ways and I have never advised anyone walk away from a relationship but in this instance I dont see an alternative .Good luck with your pregnancy but seeing how miserable things are I would make sure this was your last child ....and try to make another life for yourself .

Dontaskme - Sorry, I used the word "visitation" because that is what H calls it. (I don't know why and frankly I am reluctant to ask) Obviously to the children I call it "seeing your Granny", "going to Granny's house" etc and the phrase I use to him is "seeing your mum". But he refers to her "visitation". This is possibly because she texts him the time and date she has decided he is to come and then he then has to arrange his affairs to make sure he is there.

Bluebelle - that last paragraph is a dose of truth, all right. I had a difficult childhood and a socially conservative upbringing and my first and last instinct is always to keep the peace and smooth everything over. H is.... not perfect but most of the time I can keep things fairly harmonious as long as I work around his rough edges. As for children, we always seem to have a surprise contraceptive failure every time he suspects I am considering calling time on the whole affair. (I react too badly to the usual options for me to be able to take care of this myself.) I have asked my ob to refer me to gynae for sterilisation after this one is born. I love my children more than life but I cannot keep doing this.

I don't think I can support all three of them on my salary if I return to work and he is in a position to fiddle his income to minimise his child support payments. I have consulted ex colleagues a few times about divorce (sometimes I have just felt desperate) but the financials always come out bleak. I also don't have access

It's humilating to admit this because I know I would absolutely advise someone in my position to cut their losses. I keep thinking if I can buy myself some more time then maybe either things will smooth over or I will be in a better financial position to run.

Sparkly, that's a super idea and I will suggest it. I don't want to be the reason they don't see their granny. As far as I know, she loves them and I want to give them that chance at a relationship.

I feel like if I could get the MIL visits to run more smoothly that would eliminate a flashpoint for conflict.

He has many good qualities, I am just struggling to manage the bad ones.

sorry missing sentence - I also don't have access to his income. He pays his income into his sole account and pays me a small allowance each week for bread etc. Any clothing purchases, fees for the girls activities, the big shop etc I need to ask his approval for and then he decides whether we can have them. The girls' needs are always taken of though.

That is not the partnership a marriage should be, gummy: a small allowance for bread etc FGS! I can't imagine what drew you to this mediaeval man in the first place. I want to ask if there are family members on your side or friends in whom you can confide. Everyone needs someone in their corner for moral support. I'd go as far as saying that your OH is on the verge of coercive control.