This school has banned pencil cases

My school uniform was effectively 'provided by the government' gillybob we got a grant because my dad didn't earn enough.

An acquaintance of mine used to work at a Sure Start centre in the middle of a large council estate in our town, not far from my DGC's primary school.. Some of the stories she told me were almost hair curling and very upsetting.

Basically they were often used as a babysitting service for those who couldn't be arsed (harsh word but true) to look after their own children. Little children sent home and brought back wearing the same clothes and in some cases nappy that they had worn the previous day. Unemployed parents were allowed to use the "drop off" facility in order to look for work (or in many cases probably just sit and and watch Jeremy Kyle).

I do think that they served a purpose but like many other "well though out ideas" they needed a big shake up.

I am not sure what the answer is. Education of parents?Enforcement of parenting classes? Strict visitation of specially trained social workers? Mentoring service to vulnerable parents and children?

Life on benefits is not necessarily all bad. I quote from a young single parent friend of mine who, through various circumstances, has 4 children under 7 at the age of 24-she says she has more than enough benefits and has money left at the end of the week. The children are absolutely immaculate, beautifully dressed and well behaved. Her home is also clean and tidy. How does she achieve this? She neither smokes nor drinks, walks most places with a double buggy and actually cooks/bakes real food from scratch. She’s not a paragon of virtue, she’s made silly mistakes in relationships but her children are ‘her world’. You can’t solve the problem of bad parenting by banning a pencil case, it’s not all about lack of money.

That is a very good idea trisher but, (and I hate to say this) in some cases the school (or whoever) would actually have to provide the uniform pieces, not the money or there would be no uniform bought.

The problem with not providing things like "Sure start" is that no intervention means the problems continue and even multiply with each generation. Targeting young pre school children has worked in the States where a similar programme has been running since the 1960s. They have substantial evidence that early support leads to less criminal activity, higher levels of employment and better parenting. Unfortunately the system set up to do this here has been drastically cut by the Tories so things will certainly get worse.

Yes I can see that trisher there needs to be "something" but I'm not sure what to be honest.

On the council estate where I grew up and where my DGC go to school there are now 3 and 4 generation (notorious) families who have never worked a day in their life. It seems that successive generations have learned how to avoid work. The children know nothing else. I can't blame any political party for this.

I thought that the coalition govt looked for families where 3 generations had never worked and couldn't find any.

The only answer is to drastically reduce the benefits those families get to force them to get jobs, but of course that would cause howls of outrage from some quarters.

Unemployment is at it's lowest level for decades, so there is absolutely no excuse for anyone to bleat 'I can't get a job'

The welfare state was set up to be a temporary lifeline for those who found themselves unable to work, not a lifestyle choice, which unfortunately is too often the case now.

There are plenty I could name Ilovecheese and they wear their “status” with pride . I don’t think not being able to get a job comes into it jennifereccles it’s more of being deliberately unemployable .

But JenniferEccles It's a contradiction to say on the one hand "Unemployment is at it's lowest level for decades" and on the other hand to say not working is a choice "too often the case now."

Plus benefits have already been drastically cut for large families, because of the benefit cap.

Plus, work is not longer the way out of poverty, too much of the employment is insecure and badly paid.

I don't know what kind of family centre Gillybob's friend worked at but it is nothing like the large number of family centres I've been involved with over many years.
All children now get 30 hours free child care a week, whether their parents are working or not. It's an inexpensive way of attempting to involve parents in the support services on offer. For those parents who have drug/alcohol/mental health issues that mean their parenting is less than optimal but doesn't hit the post so far as safeguarding/state intervention goes, the child care place ensures those children are socialised, have access to the kind of play equipment and stimulation all children need. It helps them prepare for school.
It may also help a family stay together, give a parent a much needed break or time to see an advisor on m/h/drugs etc or domestic abuse. Hogarth's cartoons in the 18th century showed Gin Lane in all its glory. Britain has always had feckless drunken parents. I don't defend their behaviour or the neglect of their children. It's a reality. Family Centres, drug/alcohol units, front line preventive social work, psychologists etc etc are all needed if we're to make headway rather than go ever backwards.

Of course there are a few people who work the system and there always will be. But you can't cut benefits in the hope that they will change. You can provide facilities like Sure Start that provide children with a better start and better opportunities.
As for the employment levels, when you count zero hours contracts as a job, even though you might only do an hour, of course they seem to be rising,

It was a SureStart centre slap bang in the middle of a large council estate Iam64 . They even ran a pick up and drop off service for those who weren’t able or couldn’t be bothered to get their children there themselves .

Tessa Jowell died today. One of her achievements was the work she did on Sure Start. It's devastating for those of us involved in Family Centre work see the austerity approach closing down the places that did so much to assist children like the little girl gillybob talks about
Yes indeed - it would be a good idea if they could be introduced as a lasting legacy to Tessa Jowell.

the last I heard, is to be a centre for young offenders.
Shutting the stable door etc.

Or creating a need and then filling it! Sure start centres cut young offending rates, now they are gone an opportunity presents itself!! I do wonder if any of Mr May's financial ventures are involved?

Sure start centres cut young offending rates

Are there statistics to prove this trisher I’m not sure how we can analyse what didn’t happen.

gillybob, research in countries that invest in early years, confirms their youth offending, teenage drug/alcohol/pregnancy rates are less worrying than ours have been.
Research based practice was something the Blair/Brown governments supported. The Sure Start centres, investment in primary schools, health/midwifery services and so on were a big part of that.
"pick up and drop off" services like the ones gillybob refers to were, in my experience, aimed at the very families most in need of preventive support services. If they helped improve the quality of life for children and their families and prevented children needing to be "looked after" - good.

If it is about Smiggle that place is a bloody racket

I don’t take my littles in there because its like 15 quid for a pencilcase and a tenner for some coloured pencils!!

They aren’t at school yet but I am sure they will want this stuff to fit in when they do. Luckily I can afford it but it must be rough to have to keep telling your kids they can’t have it.

I remember thinking my dad was the meanest dad alive because he wouldn’t get me Air Jordans to go to primary school, poor man, they cost an arm and a leg!! But you don’t understand that when you’re little

Wondering if anyone here has been to Blyth?? Doubt it. You wouldn’t like it. It’s not beautiful rural Northumberland it’s v v v deprived area. I really wish people on here would try to get more informed before being so fucking judgemental! Same as yesterday regarding the obesity debate. This site should be called Smugsnet or ‘why we shouldn’t think it can possibly be as bad as that ‘. I truly despair when people say ‘you can get lovely ones in charity shops for 50p’. Well go to Blyth and surrounding areas like my ( 3 miles away) home town Ashington. Home of the Charleton football brothers and you will see how de-industrialastion ( or Thatcher destroying mining ) has left places like this , decimated , truly impoverished, hopeless, drug infested. It was a town with enormous pride. I was lucky with my 3 siblings to get a grammar school education and was able to leave ( I wish I hadn’t had too- friendliest people in the world ). So now THERE ARE people who do NOT have 50p spare Don’t you think for one minute Mason feel really sad about that I feel I will be saying this every day if I stay on site . So again yes it is true there are people who do not have 50p spare because they need it for their electricity meter . Grrrrr. I also used teach very poor and deprived children and their families also did not have a spare 50p !

I know Blyth well, coco. I grew up there and agree it has become a very deprived town. Last visited in 2002 for Mum's funeral.
In my youth their economy was based on coal mining and shipbuilding. Now both gone.
Only the port seems to be profitable now.

What is wrong with some children having cheap pencil cases and others having expensive ones?

That is real life and can be equated with cars, houses etc. It's a simple fact of life that others will have better/nicer things than you just as much as some will see your things as better/nicer than theirs!

No pencil cases in case someone gets upset is ridiculous!

I think it was said earlier in the thread, that pens & pencils etc usually stay in school nowadays. So there is no need for any pupils to have pencil cases.

Belgravian, are you for real?