The shame of Austerity Britain

I'm not having any of it regarding food banks, food has never been cheaper, NOBODY can say they cannot afford to eat.
That said there are many areas that are a problem, housing, social care and NHS and others, like it or not we are living too long, taking up housing and causing much more hospital and care cost.
We are not going to solve this by tinkering around the edges as we are now, major changes in taxation are going to be needed. Taxing the wealthy does not work because they always find a way to sidestep it, in any case most MPs are rich they are not going to vote their own prosperity away.
Increasing VAT to 25% would bring in about £30billion that would take a lot of pressure off health services, and because the rich spend more they will pay the most.

Increasing VAT to 25% would hit the very poorest in our society. Is that what you want, Davidhs?

Perhaps all the more conservative posters on this thread are closet left-wingers, trying to flush out real right wingers by driving us rightwards.

Some 'interesting' logic there, MOnica. Perhaps you could give us some examples.

Food, children's clothes, rent, healthcare, take away food and other basics are VAT free, the rich pay much more on cars, fuel, alcohol, restaurants, clothes, they pay massively more.

I'm not having any of it regarding food banks, food has never been cheaper, NOBODY can say they cannot afford to eat
Well now we know don’t we?
Given that food and everyday expenses take up a higher percentage of weekly income for low income families than the rich, , I really don’t see your 25% VAT suggestion as viable , does anybody? .

Well VAT hits the poorest hardest because, having a much lower income, they spend a greater proportion of their income on VAT taxable goods.
If you need to raise taxes, tax the wealthy not the poor!

The data, however, tells a different story. The number crunchers at the Office for National Statistics have published a new report showing that the poorest fifth of UK households pay significantly more in VAT as a percentage of their disposable income than the richest fifth. As the graph below shows, the poorest fifth spend nearly 10 per cent of their disposable income in VAT compared with 5 per cent for the richest households.

NOBODY can say they cannot afford to eat. davidhs
There have been many stories in the press about people who have had benefits stopped for a variety of reasons, often no fault of their own.
Perhaps you should read grannyactivist’s posts from earlier today.
Other people pay high rents, high utility bills, or have outstanding debts leading to little money to spare for food. Most parents prioritise feeding their children and many go hungry themselves.
It’s shaming that food is unaffordable to so many people in modern Britain.

You have also restored my faith grannyactivist that there some GN who have compassion and understanding about some people's lives which may unravel and leave them in such dire circumstances, over which they have little control. They do need people to advocate on their behalf and speak up for them. Any one of us are only one life changing event away from ending in a similar position. Sometimes the postings become so toxic and smug I feel like leaving GN.

Of course the rich pay massively more on the items you Davidhs. They pay much less of their overall responsibility nooner on those items than do the poor or even the ‘struggling middle’.
Grannyactivist speaks knowledgable about the homeless. Many of us have direct knowledge of what it’s like to be disadvantaged. One of my relatives is on the verge of eviction from the two bed flat he was allocated almost thirty years ago. He moved from claiming job seekers to being self employed a couple of years ago. He earns less than he got on benefits but no longer has to apply for hundreds of jobs he’s no chance of getting, slo g with all the additional stress of claiming. He can’t afford the bedroom tax. The child who used to live in the spare room is no longer elibigle for housing benefit. Two more homeless and vulnerable individuals soon.
I expect many of us have similar experience. I have in my personal and what was my working life.
I don’t understand how people can be so lacking in compassion, so ill informed or just plain bigoted.

Monica Perhaps these new and very unpleasant right wingers on Gransnet are driving you rightwards but they're certainly not having that effect on me.

I miss the, as you call them, "left wing enthusiasts" who recently left Gransnet. They at least presented a substantive argument, backing up what they said with references to links to research and reports - which were often derided.

grannyactivist Your account of the experiences of people you work with who have fallen on hard times was very moving. Hopefully it will give some Gransnetters pause for thought - but I won't hold my breath. It would be nice if those of of us whose lives are relatively untroubled could be a little more sympathetic and less condemnatory of others who have been less fortunate. I agree with you regarding so-called "community care". The hospitals that provided a place of safety and recuperation for people ungergoing mental health crises and addiction issues have now all gone, replaced by a much more haphazard, and increasingly under-funded, support system.

News reports of people slipping through our increasingly punitive welfare system are frequently reported. Some people may choose to ignore them, but they are unfortunately not unusual.

A Kilmarnock man who slipped into a six-week coma after surgery has been left to survive on just £70 a month.
Stephen Benzie was left fighting for his life at Crosshouse Hospital after his bowel split and he contracted septicemia.
During his surgery the 54-year-old suffered a heart attack and a stroke, was left temporarily paralysed as a result and lost six stone in weight in the weeks following.
And that meant the father-of-one fell foul of the Universal Credit system with his benefits being stopped when he failed to sign on after the surgery
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/kilmarnock-man-who-slipped-six-12622801

Doesn’t it just show how unfair and stupid some of the regulations are. Having sepsis and the long stay in hospital etc that man needs nutritious food and a warm safe place to live. That is actually disgusting. Would not have happened in the days of the hospital almoner!

Hear, hear Lazigirl, Eloethan, Iam64 and others.

Just as grannya did in the wee small hours, so many of you have reassured me when I'm feeling more vulnerable than usual.
Thank you for that.
It makes hard reading, doesn't it, when such hideous opinions are expressed and the writers expect to have them condoned. Even worse that a small minority did support them.

Welshwife, of the people I work with very few have any sort of family support so these people really are just on their own usually and even the statutory services can't cope. Many of the people I work with don't have a phone and most have never had a computer yet there are very few face-to-face services they can access and all applications for benefits are now online or require the applicant to have the £8 bus fare to get to the nearest job centre.
The government has now put a duty on local councils to reduce homelessness - but with no extra money and a shortage of social housing it's like asking them to spin gold out of straw.
Yesterday was a low point for me. I co-founded my charity after a homeless person died on the streets just a few minutes walk from my house and I didn't ever want that to happen again. Sadly, just as the charity was getting going a second man also died, before he'd had a chance to access our services, and it almost broke me. Their deaths were from medical causes; living on the streets vastly reduces life expectancy. But now I'm seeing more and more people who are so broken they are on the point of giving up on life and even though I am a professional there are days when I come close to despairing on their behalf and yesterday was one such.
I'll make the suggestion again. For those people who want to gain a more informed understanding please, please, watch the film 'I, Daniel Blake'. It can probably be rented from your local library - if you still have a library that is.

That is all just so sad - these people must be so pleased to have your band of people to help them. Do you manage to get enough funds to do all you want.?

Fortunately none of the caseworkers get paid so we we have no costs other than what is actually spent on our clients; we simply claim back what we spend (with receipts) and have a really good management committee to oversee the finances. Getting donations so far has not been a problem at all and means that we can pay for specialist help for our clients or buy equipment as needed. I am regularly asked to talk about our work and had a phone call recently from a man who made a personal donation of £1000 after hearing me. I live in a town that has a wonderfully caring community and people fundraise for us unasked; churches, choirs, music groups, the Lions, the scouts, the WI and individuals have all given us donations - some of them quite sizeable to a small charity like ours. Unfortunately what we need is not money, but access to services and housing for our clients - and at the moment we are looking for additional caseworkers, but finding people with the right skills and professional attitude who will work for free is not an easy task.

It is so good to hear of people giving of themselves so generously - your time and effort is the most precious thing really but unfortunately people do not realise that.

Monica Perhaps these new and very unpleasant right wingers on Gransnet are driving you rightwards but they're certainly not having that effect on me.

If you are including myself as right wing forget it, I'm Centre Left, the cost of food is not the problem, its never been cheaper, fact!.
I argue against Austerity and for Taxation increase, unlike many on these pages who think taxing the rich is the solution, it isn't because it will only produce a small amount over many years and the revenue know that, Capital taxes are popular but don't raise much. VAT would produce a lot quickly, higher income tax raises a lot, do we really want to put the burden on to working families
Many disadvantaged people are having benefits and support reduced and I am sympathetic, however I don't see any change, even if Corbyn ( it could happen) is elected the books still have to be balanced.

Actually the books don’t have to balanced and anyone with a Reception Year understanding of fiscal policy knows that VAT is a regressive tax as are all taxes on spending.

I don’t think the cost of food as such is the problem david, it’s the low wages, zero hours contracts, high rent, benefit cutbacks, benefit delays, utility costs, high debt, etc that are cutting income that makes people need foodbanks.

Raising VAT would penalise the poorest disproportionately. It would also reduce people’s spending power which is likely to reduce growth.
To boost growth, the government should kickstart the economy by investing money -building more houses, restoring Bursaries for nurses’ training, funding social care better, boosting Sure Start schemes, lifting wages caps, building hospitals and schools, improving roads and rail etc. All this would create jobs, which in turn creates more jobs.

grannyactivist Fri 01-Jun-18 01:11:18

Your post was very enlightening as well as moving, ga, thank you. It's very worrying that we sometimes seem to have less compassion and fewer support networks in place for the most vulnerable in our society than previous generations did. Things should improve over time, not go backwards.

Yes thanks grannyactivist you show a side of modern life that most people don’t see.
What would you like to see done about homelessness? I know there are no quick easy solutions, but what do you think needs doing?

Maizie Could I suggest a sense of humour failure? My post was entirely flippant.

David (this is serious). However cheap food is, if your benefits haven't arrived because of some mix up, then short of being given food for free you cannot afford to buy it.