Rape just bad sex Germaine Greer

She said she didn't report her rape because she "wasn't angry enough" - OK that was her reaction to it but just because she experienced a rape does not make her an expert on how other women would react.

I have had cancer, but that does not make me an expert on how others who have cancer will deal with it.

Exactly Oldwoman70.

Sex is supposed to be a loving act.

Any man who forces sex, in a relationship or not, is motivated by anything from plain selfishness to violent hatred.

Not only the physical act, but awareness of the motivation behind it, will contribute to a woman's reaction.

So someone who "accommodates" her partner may be extremely distressed by his lack of care for her and, possibly, her awareness of feeling trapped in that relationship.

Rape within marriage wasnt seen as a crime.

it is now Iam64 quite rightly so

It's actually an interesting argument, that non-violent rape should receive lower sentences and require a smaller level of proof, and violent rape should be judged on the level of violence and sentencing made accordingly. It would provide some sort of solution to the increasing problem of date-rape where there is some sort of debate about if consent was given. Not the crackpot idea presented in the headlines but something to think about.

I'd agree with smaller level of proof, but not lower sentences.

How would the courts identify non violent rape? Psychological terror in a long term relationship may lead to a the individual being terrorised (often a woman) being said to have consented.

I suppose Iam64 it would be the fact that it had been taken to court . Therefore would not be confused with a woman ‘ being reluctantly obliging.
Also let’s not forget that there are many woman who are happy to ‘ keep their man sweet’ and benifit from his ‘good humour! It’s a funny old world , what ever floats your boat I suppose ,but there should be no way a woman is ever forced against her will in any relationship.

Sorry but I’ve never rated GG - always thought to her publicity meant everything.

Bridgeit, it remains very difficulult to prosecute any rape cases, never mind those within marriage/long term relationships.
I suppose the new coercive control act may help women in the situation I'm thinking of. "keeping your man sweet"shouldn't involve repeatedly having sex you don't want, or types of sex you don't want.

I suppose what is being proposed is something like the difference between GBH and ABH, so the crime would depend upon the physical damage caused. And perhaps its not a bad idea to rethink rape as a crime and the sentencing involved. The stigma that once was involved has been greatly reduced but still remains to some extent and an open discussion might help to reduce it even more.

I think you have an interesting point there trisher . The more that the stigma attached to being raped is reduced the better.
If we are no longer encouraged to think that people are "soiled" or "ruined" by being raped maybe the mental trauma could be reduced.

A very long or life sentence for the rapist does sort of encourage the idea that if someone has been raped their life is over.

However, we don't want to go back to the days of Judge Pickles, and give longer sentences for burglary than for rape.

So you're saying lighter sentencing would encourage the victims to be less upset and to regard it more as 'bad sex'.
And once this becomes the generally accepted idea, people wouldn't be so scared of rape or so distressed if it happens to them?

No Far North we are saying that rape is a complex crime and that the law should reflect those complexities. Perhaps one of the reasons that this has not been done is because rape has traditionally been regarded as partially the fault of the victim. Having rejected that concept we can discuss the penalties for the crime at every level, from a single 'date' rape to violent serial rapists.

A date rape could be as terrifying as rape by a stranger who makes violent threats.
In both cases, a woman is aware that the man is much stronger than she is and that he could choose to do her serious injury if she tries to resist.

Very often there is more force being used than just a penis. knives and guns have been used in rape, indeed women have died from being raped.

To place that in the same position as a husband forcing his wife ot accomadate him- well that's awful but not rape.

Technically it is rape MargaretX and the point is that it should be possible to prosecute for this but it should carry a lesser sentence than a rape where terrible violence is used.

Yes, “forcing his wife to accommodate him” is rape. It is unlikely to happen unless the man is abusive in other aspects of the relationship.
It is different than stranger rape but it’s wrong to suggest it alwYs causes less physical or emotional harm to the woman on the receiving end. (Or indeed male victims of male rape)

But there must be difference Iam64 if the physical damage is such that a woman is say unable to have children, or ever have sex again or almost dies.

I don't want people who have been raped to feel the sense of shame that so often accompanies it, and I suppose I feel that giving a life sentence, for a rape that does not include life changing injuries, gives the message that somehow that person ought to feel that their life is over, which I wouldn't wish them to feel.

Only the person on the receiving end knows how it has affected them, but I don't want them to sort of feel obliged to feel that their life is over, because the rapist has been given a life sentence.

Sorry if I am not explaining myself very well, I don't want in any way to dismiss another person's trauma.

Ilovecheese. I don't believe that giving a life sentence to the perpetrator would make the victim feel their life is over. I'm not keen on prison for non violent offenders, I wish we had better alternative. Anyone who rapes, especially one who causes severe physical as well as the inevitable psychological damage deserves a life sentence. As we all know, it rarely means life. It means the offender remains on licence which can't be a bad thing for those offenders.

trisher - I don't believe we're a million miles apart on the issue of sentencing offenders. I agree with you that those rapes which cause the serious enduring physical problems you describe, mean the perpetrator should be subject to a severe sentence. I understand your argument that some rapes are more hideous than others. It's harder to 'measure' I feel, than say the grades of physical harm that are legally identified in the various Sections of actual/grievous etc bodily harm. Long term sexual abuse may not leave physical scars but the psychological and emotional damage is life changing.

Iam64 I understand your concerns about the emotional and psychological damage that should be taken into account. I think that one of the difficulties is that sometimes in cases where it is difficult to decide if consent was given (I hate the tem date-rape) the accused will be aquited because the required sentence seems too severe. It would be nice to think that more convictions might result from lighter sentences for some rapes.
It is great that we can have such a sensible and measured discussion about this.

Rape is rape...regardless of it being violent or not.Its the invasion of a womans (OR MANS)body by someone she doesn't want to be there .To think there are degrees of rape is backward thinking....that way the abusive husband will walk free,or the "friend" who read the signals wrong willl get a slap on the wrist .Its a way of making the victim take some of the blame and clearly that is wrong.

I'm not sure of the law on this point. If a rape is particularly vicious and involves severe physical damage to the person, is it tried as rape plus grievous bodily harm? Or is it tried as rape but a much lengthier sentence given?

It is true that rape is rape - i.e. when a person is penetrated without his or her consent. But I'm edging towards the opinion that, as others have said, a rape that was so violent as to cause lengthy or permanent physical or mental damage should be treated more severely.