Rape just bad sex Germaine Greer

it doesn't need to be particularly violent to leave mental damage .The deed is in itself an invasion..therefore its violent.Women who are raped who didn't put up a fight were for years accused of "allowing" it to happen and often given a very bad time in court.Should they have fought their attacker and been beaten as well as raped?Does a woman have to show black eyes and broken ribs before she'll be believed? I thought we had moved on from those days .

paddyann I don'tthink anyone on this thread has said women shouldn't be believed, but if the evidence is (and I think a thorough investigation would be needed) that a substantial number of rapes are being dismissed because there is lack of evidence and a jury fears that the sentence (currently averaging 8 years) is too great. I don't know if this is the case, but I think it is a discussion worth having without being accused of thinking women are responsible. In fact there is also an argument that women raped by their husbands might be more prepared to come forward, the prospect of the father of their children spending years in prison meaning they prefer to keep quiet.

No-one said that trisher. There has been talk on this thread of "less violent" rapes.
It may be that the only reason violence didn't happen is that the woman did what she was told, out of fear.
Absence of physical injury doesn't mean that the rape was "less violent".

^^ * violence, other than the rape itself, didn't happen

I watched a bit of GG on TV last night and in my view she came across with contradictory messages - not that I can remember them now! Perhaps she just says outrageous things to get a reaction but I wasn't impressed. That said she did make me think when I was younger. However seeing her now I found her rather a sad and lonely person though I'm sure she'd disagree most vociferously!

I think most people accept that there are different degrees of crime. There is the shoplifter who steals a few items from a supermarket and then there is an accountant who defrauds his clients of thousands of pounds. With violent crime, there is, for instance, a punch that knocks out a tooth, a punch that results in death because the victim hits/his her head on a kerb, or a dousing with acid which destroys a face.

Why is rape seen so differently? Of course, any rape is a violation, is likely to cause a degree of trauma and should be treated very seriously. But a rape that, for instance, damages internal organs irreperably or, because of the level of violence, causes severe and longstanding psychological trauma that profoundly affects living a normal life, I would consider warrants a longer sentence.

I've always quite liked Germaine Green even though she makes some outrageous statements sometimes. However, I agree that now she is coming across as someone who is being outrageous in order to try and regain media attention.

I watched Greer , didn’t think she was outrageous, she was the same as always, she is her own person always has been, she still talks a lot of sense, she didn’t conform at 31 and she hasn’t at 80 . Good for her.

I didn’t think she was outrageous either Annibach, just a bit sad really,
I thoroughly enjoyed a talk by her many years ago, didn’t agree with everything she said ,but have always admired her,& her take on life, that is why I was dissaapointed that she choose to say what she said, when so many woman & worse young girls still suffer at the hands of men. ( Apologies to all the lovely men out there of which thank God there are many)

What did she say Bridgeit that you say ‘she choose to say what she did’? I recorded it so I can listen again. I thought she was right about ‘Me Too ‘ it won’t change things, girls will still have sex with men to get a film role, men will still make passes, I think she was right to say if a man sticks his hand up your skirt hit him. I realy think ‘Me Too’ has done more harm than good, I know I am in the minority . We seem now to all women as victims

Just as in the title Annie, she said that ‘ most rapes are just bad sex’
Given that I had always admired her views & believed her to be ‘for women’
I was saddened to hear make such a statement, when so many woman still suffer at the hands of men.
Once more I will add that there are many many wonderful men who do not treat woman’s this way.

Yes I can understand that but are we doing girls any favours by saying men do not have the right etc, we all know this but there will always be rapists , this troubles me Bridgeit, are we safeguarding girls this way?

I too think there are far more good men than the other sort.

Men DONT have the right AB No one has any rights over a womans body but gerself.Rape is the worst violation of those rights ,whether she lay quietly until he was done...or fought back makes not one bit of difference.Ask any woman if the punch on the face was worse than the rape and I can gaurantee they will answer they would have taken a beating over rape any day .

It's interesting how much emphasis some are putting on girls (or boys) to ensure none of their behaviour could be said to be responsible for the rape they are subjected to. Man do not have rights to having their sexual needs met. Women, children have no responsibility or duty to meet those sexual needs. Men (and the women perpetrators) need to control 'urges' that are damaging to children or adult partners. It's unlikely they don't actually understand this, even if they only understand their desires are illegal or abusive

Safeguarding girls (and boys) is very important. A key part of that is being honest with them. They need age appropriate information ensuring we've done our best to help them understand that not everyone is kind and reliable. Some people of their age, and also adults will behave badly, exploitatively and abuse them sexually. That doesn't put responsibility on them for the bad behaviour of someone else. it should begin a process fo them understanding that life can present risks.

Well really all I can say Annie ,is that a woman cannot Rape a man, ( unless with drugs I suppose)
I don’t believe anyone has a right to sex. I know years ago woman were encouraged to keep her man ‘happy’ well that’s down to each individual. But I think it is actually degrading to men to imply that they can’t do with out, & that it is some how a woman’s Job to provide sex ‘on tap’ so as to keep them from turning into rampant letches ?

I give up, Paddyann, I have not said men have the right, some men THINK THEY DO, nothing can be done about that, we cannot control people’s minds. Men murder children , they don’t have the right, men have been hanged for it but it still happened when we had the ultimate deterrent. I think we are in danger of giving girls a false sense of security. As for abuse within a marriage or relationships, some women do not walk away, there are women who allowed their own child to suffer the most horrific treatment by partners, they still stay with them.

I'm not sure what you mean, Annie.
How could we be giving girls a false sense of security? It seems the opposite to me.
Some women do not stop partners from abusing their child - what point are you making about that?

I always keep in mind the case where a young girl was so badly treated in court...after she was brave enough to report the rape ...that she committed suicide.That cant be right.Her pants were held up as "evidence" of character ? For goodness sake what does wearing nice knickers have to do with some young eegit jumping on her and dragging her into the bushes.This needs to be stopped.What women wear does not invite rape ,nor does it justify it.

As for abuse in marriage I think some of us know that there are reasons women dont "walk away" from it .My own sister was abused in her marriage ,we couldn't talk her into leaving him,he used every type of emotional balckmail there is to make sure she stayed.Stayed to die at 50 !!

So sorry, got two threads mixed up, not sensible to post when very tired.

Apologies