Gransnet forums


Brexiteers blocked their ears

(51 Posts)
Bridgeit Sun 22-Jul-18 10:21:35

Listening to the further complications anticipated post Brexit re airspace problems etc, isn’t it time Brexiteers stopped putting their fingers in their ears & actually faced up to the facts that Brexit is going to be have a negative & devasting effect on finance & employment for many years to come instead of their continual asssertion that life post Brexit will be a land of milk & honey. John Major today says that some regulations could take up to 50yrs to unravel ,so a lot of us of a certain age won’t be here by then ,what chaos will we have left for younger generations to deal with. is it not reasonable to to think a 2nd referendum is in order.

MawBroon Sun 22-Jul-18 10:28:55

To paraphrase Bridgeit isn’t it time everybody stopped pretending that either there is going to be a second referendum or that there might have been a different outcome.
Good, bad or indifferent is not the only imperative now to make the best of the situation?

HootyMcOwlface Sun 22-Jul-18 10:29:06

We can hope Bridgeit, we can but hope, but the Brexshiteers will all be out baying for blood!

Azie09 Sun 22-Jul-18 10:34:47

Brave woman Bridgeit, hope you've put your armour on! As ample threads on here demonstrate, Brexiteers seem incapable of looking beyond their own notions of taking back sovereignty actually not lost and imagining the resurgence of a GREAT Britain harking back to the days of Elizabeth 1st and a colonial world.
Someone trumpeted the other day a deal to build warships in Australia. Warships, great, just what the world needs now. Being built in Australia too, so fine for BAEs profits but not bringing jobs or industry here.
So stand by for accusations of Project Fear, your thoughts will fall on deaf ears. I can't believe what I see happening in front of me, these are sad times from which the likes of Johnson and Rees Mogg will personally profit but the young and the neediest will suffer most.

paddyann Sun 22-Jul-18 10:59:55

Brexiteers = the bigotted and the braindead+ those who want to line their own pockets .Like BOjo and James Dyson etc .Get rid of employment rights so they can pay buttons ,and wont have to conform to new EU rules re tax havens .
BUT ...that mystical sovereignty will be all yours.What on earth will you do with it?

MawBroon Sun 22-Jul-18 11:09:22

paddyann and Hooty McOwlface ( brexshitteers and the bigoted and braindead )
There’s nothing like a decent debate and open discussion and with attitudes like that this is nothing like it
Argue against the opinion, not the person,

MaizieD Sun 22-Jul-18 11:10:15

They're even complacently contemplating the chaos that a No Deal will bring and saying that it'll be 'worth it'. 'We knew it was going to be a bit difficult at first'

Have they completely taken leave of their senses?

kittylester Sun 22-Jul-18 11:15:34

But what do you expect anyone to do now?

I voted remain and I regret the result of the vote but what do threads like this do except perpetuate the bad feelings that already exist as exhibited by previous posters on here.

What exactly can be done now?

MawBroon Sun 22-Jul-18 11:21:39

How I see it Kittylester.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 22-Jul-18 11:29:39

It is beyond our control until there is a general election, I personally do not think that another referendum is the answer, it would in my opinion widen the divide.

I am now going to avoid all Brexit threads, as it is the same argument rehashed numerous ways.

Personal insults seem to be more frequent and hurtful, and totally unnecessary. Debate should be just debate!

annodomini Sun 22-Jul-18 11:30:03

Sovereignty is a joke if you look at the ownership of our formerly nationalised industries:
Four of the 'big six' energy companies are in foreign ownership
70% of our rail routes are in foreign hands
There is also massive investment in and ownership of our airports.
Who owns Britain?

Nonnie Sun 22-Jul-18 11:33:47

I normally steer clear of the political debates so not sure why I am commenting now. I'm probably saying something which has already been said elsewhere so sorry.

I don't think people who voted to leave are stupid but I do think they were mislead and to some extent I blame the media. Just one example: we now hear that the money we will get back from the EU won't be enough to pay for increased NHS funding, so why didn't the media challenge what was written on that bus at the time? I get most of my news from the BBC and they endlessly showed that bus without challenging what it said.

I think it was simply a matter of time before Boris and friends resigned as he could hardly stay in a cabinet which was going to find it impossible to deliver the Brexit he promised. He had to leave so that he could blame those he left behind otherwise he would have to own up to the lies he told.

Not being prone to sympathy for politicians I do feel rather sorry for Teresa May because whatever the outcome she will get the blame and there is no way everyone is going to accept that she has got the best deal she could. She will carry all the blame for the country's ills for years to come despite having been put in an impossible position. Suspect Jeremy Corbyn is worried stiff that there will be a general election this year and he will have to sort out the whole mess! If that should happen I will be sorry for him too.

Bridgeit Sun 22-Jul-18 11:34:36

Well, there is a ground swell for a 2nd referendum ,but I doubt it will happen .
Because further pitfalls are now becoming accepted & being recognised I believe that many people are realising that the vote was swept up in a cross between dissatisfaction with some policies & dare I say it a very sad distortion of ‘others taking our jobs ‘etc. Voting is usually emotive, but this one in particular really needed to be taken on cold hard facts, I don’t believe that it was.

Bridgeit Sun 22-Jul-18 11:36:45

Brilliant , well stated Nannie.

Bridgeit Sun 22-Jul-18 11:37:00

sorry Nonnie

Mamie Sun 22-Jul-18 11:42:34

I still think it possible that a majority could get behind an EEA / EFTA deal if the Government dropped its ridiculous red lines and took a pragmatic approach. This would be the least economically damaging outcome (apart from remain) and Britain would have fulfilled the outcome of the referendum and left the EU.

Bridgeit Sun 22-Jul-18 12:05:29

Sensible Mamie, but Brexiteers (some) would surely protest.

Mamie Sun 22-Jul-18 12:32:56

They would Bridgeit but to be honest reality is going to have to hit them at some point or other. It is very clear from all the evidence that long term there is no appetite for Brexit from the emerging voter demographic. At some point the "will of the people" will have to apply to the existing population not the one that voted two years ago.
There never was a majority for an economically destructive hard Brexit and despite the clamour of the ERG and their followers and I seriously doubt that a majority of the population would knowingly vote for unemployment and food shortages. Most people do not really want their children and grandchildren to become poorer do they?

crystaltipps Sun 22-Jul-18 12:42:42

Davis, Johnson and Farage et al all promised there would be a great deal as “they need us more than we need them”. Complete lies as it looks like now there won’t be a deal and it will all be an utter mess. The Tory party are at each other’s throats from both sides and their best ally is the Labour (non) opposition. I’m trying to avoid Brexit threads but it still makes me sad/ angry/ despairing.

winterwhite Sun 22-Jul-18 13:15:02

I think it is head in the sand to ignore it. It’s easy to see why so many who voted Remain feel cheated - the Leave campaign, fond of referring to that tiny margin as the will of the people, has now been found to have broken electoral regulations with its expenditure. ‘Sorry’ is a very small word and we don’t seem to have heard it.
Someone up-thread asked why the money for the NHS on the red bus wasn’t challenged in the media. It certainly was. In several reputable newspapers.
Someone else wondered what anyone can do now. We can write to our MPs and let them know the strength of our opinions, and the line we hope they will take. And carry on writing. And, tedious tho it is, we can make sure we keep up.
Do agree though that anger at the current chaos is one thing, but bad temper towards one another in these posts is another and there is no place for that.

Bridgeit Sun 22-Jul-18 13:44:33

Yes well said, winter white

Azie09 Sun 22-Jul-18 14:14:13

winterwhite, I used to be a great writer to MPs but that was, ironically, in the days when I lived in the constituency of a young Conservative MP! Despite not sharing her party politics, I found her thoughtful and responsive and felt that she listened with respect to a constituent though I know she still sometimes voted with the party or Whip.

Now I live in the constituency of a diehard Labour, Corbynite, Brexiteer who is almost rude in his rejection of the matter you have taken the time to write to him about. It is very depressing.

I think politics in this country has become unrecognisable from the situation even 30 years ago. The main two parties have polarised the country and Corbyn is destroying the Labour Party, we desperately need a sound opposition. MPs no longer listen to their constituents. There is no longer any integrity, MPs now laugh off things they would once have resigned instantly for. Boris Johnson is scandalous in posturing, how he can hold his head up whilst still holding a public position I have no idea. Shameless comes to mind.
Only the other day we have the disregard for the tradition of pairing where an MP who cannot attend to vote (Jo Swinton) will be paired with a member of the opposition so as to avoid unfair advantage. The MP who was paired did as the Tory whip said and voted and the whole matter is just swept under the carpet. Democracy? Who on earth thinks we live in a democracy any longer? We live in an oligarchy and most of us are just cannon fodder for those who manipulate behind the scenes and REALLY hold power. Take back sovereignty? Derisive snort! No emoticon for that!

Azie09 Sun 22-Jul-18 14:21:31

As James O'Brien, Radio 5 Live said yesterday:

'The minute Brexiters have to write down their ‘plan’, expose it to scrutiny & explain the detail, the whole thing will fall apart. This holds whatever the plan is. No deal is now the only way they get to continue refusing to write anything down. It really is this simple & tragic.'

Nonnie Sun 22-Jul-18 14:48:24

That pretty much sums it us Azie

Allygran1 Sun 22-Jul-18 16:14:48

Azie09, My goodness what a thoughtless statement!
You said:
"Who on earth thinks we live in a democracy any longer? We live in an oligarchy and most of us are just cannon fodder for those who manipulate behind the scenes and REALLY hold power. Take back sovereignty? "

Explain please!

Don't rush I am out until late from now.