Moaning Leavers, an explanation

And any talk of cheating is clutching at STRAWS

Rubbish. It's absolutely true that Vote Leave cheated. The fact that Leavers seem to be contemptuous of the law, even though they made a huge fuss about repatriating lawmaking from the EU to the UK, speaks volumes. Why bother about who makes our laws if you think it's perfectly OK to break them if they inconvenience you?

And to think that Leavers complain that Remained won't 'get behind Brexit'. Who, in their right mind, wants to get behind a load of cheats and liars?

MaizieD
There is no doubt that the UK did have a 'secondary' influential role within the EU, secondary to Germany and France, and being one of the largest nett contributor to this organisation this should be the case, however, as the EU has grown country allegiances have changed. Funding streams have been redirected and now even Scotland who is probably still considered a deprived area has become a nett contributor to the EU rather than a recipient.
The ability to negotiate on behalf of our initiatives is diminishing because the funding is now going mainly to Eastern Europe.
Do we continue to allow our own infrastrucure to continue to degrade whilst supporting the development of initiatives of no benefit to us? Well maybe yes to some degree, however if this degredation continues at an increasing pace and calls for extra funding increase and loss of influence begins to increase with intransigence when these issues are discussed isnt it time to re-evaluate our future.
Difficult decisions may require short term disruption.

JenniferEccles
Over £9,000,000 spent on the leaflet.

Our role was a subservient one, as illustrated famously by Cameron just before the referendum, who was not able to negotiate any concessions at all with Brussels.

You have said this time and time again over the past 2 years, Day6, and it is just not true. It is not true that the UK had no influence in the EU nor is it true that DC got no concessions from the EU in 2016. He got us a permanent opt out from joining the euro and from 'ever closer' political union. Plus concessions on welfare payments to EU workers.
I'd be interested to know what you'd expected him to get...

As for 'no influence' in general, I've often posted a thread detailing the areas where we had great influence (including the creation of the Single Market). I can only assume that you've chosen to ignore it.

Constantly repeating untruths doesn't make them true, though I appreciate that they influence people who don't bother, or care, to find out the truth. It certainly worked for you.

I'd post links but I'm abroad and only using my phone, which doesn't have them bookmarked.

Nigel Farage is returning to front line politics. Fantastic news.

We re in the sxxx and people talk about ‘bumps’ along the road what blooming euphemism is that

I worry about the far right and it’s extension in the world, at least within a bigger group we had more strength to fight it
We had a lot of good things come out of being a member of the EU and we were always the troublesome member who was not a good team player

The people didn’t decide Day6 so not sure what you are proud of, a minority of the population (a small majority of voters) decided, built on the lies of a number of hypocrites namely Farage and Johnson and that has ruined the country for at least another two generations
Not much to be proud of for your grandchildren

"I was also proud of the role Britain had within the EU."

Care to enlighten us Momof3 ? What exactly was that role? Banker?

Our role was a subservient one, as illustrated famously by Cameron just before the referendum, who was not able to negotiate any concessions at all with Brussels.

He was ignored and powerless. I found that quite frightening and not a good indication of a strong Britain. We were being swallowed up and things had come to a head.

That was NOT reassuring and I felt proud that by having a referendum the people could decide whether we wanted that bondage to continue or not. We were able to decide whether we wanted to give billions of taxpayers money every year to an institution which treated us as both its obedient poodle and its cash cow.

Those same feelings have since emerged in countries all over Europe, just in case you hadn't noticed.

I take that point but couldn't that be interpreted as blundering into an unknown situation with no real plan

Well, the other side of that coin is that we entered into a trading agreement decades ago which slyly evolved into something much bigger and more powerful, a European federation. We jogged along into the unknown when we formed a partnership with the EU.

Cameron coming back from Brussels without being granted any concessions, bargaining power, wriggle room etc, rang massive warning bells to so many of us. That monstrous EU institution is one NO COUNTRY except us has tried to leave. We are the trail blazers.

Of course it would be difficult to extricate ourselves. There has been legal binding over the years, apart from anything else.

I cannot imagine anyone but TM handling the situation. EU officials are not going to let us go easily and have to display their strength and power, otherwise other countries would follow suit in quick succession I imagine.

Not only that, at every stage of negotiations TM is being thwarted by Remainers, rich business people and their law suits trying to overturn the decision, the Lords and Remainer MPs ignoring the public and deciding to interfere with the democratic vote of the people, those on the gravy train fearing loss of lucrative earnings and perks and pro remain publications and media sites dishing out doom and gloom Project Fear stories from the outset.

It's no wonder most of us are fed up and tired of the to-ing and fro-ing. May is quite amazing I think, in battling not just with Barnier and Juncker but with British MPs, including those in her own party, making her job more difficult at every turn.

There will be much celebration when we cut ties with Brussels, finally, and I would not be at all surprised if we are just the first of many countries which break away from the EU stranglehold.

Trade what exactly name I have just moved back from Europe and I could buy very little that was British. Even Cadbury’s that had a factory in the country I lived was not sold there

Japan has just done a massive trade deal with the E.U. Who exactly as England going to be trading with post Brexit.

I have just moved back to the UK from Europe, I was already proud of the tolerant, heroic and majestical Britain. I was also proud of the role Britain had within the EU.

Now we have a man Theo thinks that women who have been raped should be denied an abortion and still lives in the 1920’s Jacob Rees Mogg who stands to make millions if we leave the eu with no deal because his hedge fund company have a bet on it. Farage whose made many thousands of the EU by doing his job incredibly badly. His children will continue to take money from Germany and enjoy the benefits of EU membership.

The banks are starting to move huge sections of their business overseas. I know someone on the board of a massive international company based in Germany. Who is still wondering why the hell Britain voted to leave the E.U.

Drs have said the NHS will be damaged by leaving the EU with no deal. The NHS is closely tied with organ donor lists being European wide, the movement of drugs and medical research which has been paid for by Europe.

The border between Ireland and the north has to be negotiated. I have friends in Nothern Ireland who are absolutely terrified.

There has still been no mention of how the regeneration of the North and south Wales is going to continue with out the EU money.

These are all very reasonable questions that no one has answered and which the politicians need to negotiate with our European neighbours. It needs intelligence and compromise from both sides not the superior attitude to the simple foreigners that Jacob Rees Mogg and his other Tory cronies have shown up to now.

And any talk of cheating is clutching at STRAWS ??

Maisie D - I can honestly say that I am totally unconcerned with your views. The referendum result was OUT.

Much more money was spent on trying to persuade us to stay in!! So put a sock in it!

The difference being that the Remain campaigners didn't spend money illegally. It still surprises me that Leavers are unconcerned that some of their side cheated. It's bad enough that we voted to leave but that Leavers don't care how the result was obtained makes me even less inclined to want to associate with them or have anything to do with their vision of the UK'S future.

And such a childish comment at the end of your message, Poppyred

After untangling the legislation covering our trade with the EU, and trade with the Rest Of the World under the many EU/RestOfWorld, we then will begin to knit ourselves a new series of separate agreements, first with EU countries, then with each of the RestOfWorld countries we trade with. Stitch by stitch and row by row.

Countries we already trade with and have done for many years under those trade agreements negotiated bit by bit as part of the European trading unit not, as was widely believed by many leave voters, that we can begin to trade with them now, having been prevented from doing so by our EU links.

It was never going to be simple to extricate ourselves from the many tentacles of the EU but that didn’t /doesn’t mean it’s impossible, and must say I have never seen any GN member saying so.
There are many complexities to sort out, but it will happen and just takes time.

Much more money was spent on trying to persuade us to stay in!! So put a sock in it!

Yes well obviously that wasn't good, I can't say it was, but what about the huge sum Cameron spent on that idiotic leaflet delivered to every household in the UK. Over £1,000,000 wasn't it?

The Leave campaign faced a barrage of scaremongering from the Remain camp, claiming all manner of catastrophic consequences if we voted Leave, none of which have come true.

Then there was Obama coming here and telling us we would be at the back of the queue if we left.

Ok, I can't pretend to know how things will turn out - no-one can, but I weighed up the arguments on both sides, and stuck to my initial instinct that we had been given a fantastic once in a lifetime opportunity, and that we should take it.

You can fool some of the people all the time, and all the people some of the time . . . .

Plus, there's none so deaf as those who won't hear. Before the vote, experts were telling us that it would not be as straighforward as was being claimed, that there would be protracted and difficult negotiations, that trade would be interrupted until those negotiations were agreed and completed, and so on and so forth.

I remember a link to Professor Michael Dougan whose expertise was EU constitutional law, who spent 25 minutes explaining very clearly what would be involved and how many experienced experts it would take to sort it all out and how long it would take them. The reaction of some gransnetters was one big yawn, and a complaint that they couldn't be bothered listening to him. Well, they reckoned they knew better than the experts, didn't they? They would vote for "Out" and a magic wand would make it all happen painlessly the next day. Yeah, right.

The Electoral Commission ruled on what we all knew - Leave cheated. Last month, Vote Leave were fined £60,000 for incomplete and inaccurate expenses and for working jointly with pro-Brexit group BeLeave – and using this to get around their spending ceiling of £7 million.

These people- Farage, BJ and JRM all lied and deceived enough guillable people to vote leave- obviously not any GN leavers, who will no doubt say they all knew what they were voting for - but what was that exactly? - was it to be like Norway, or Switzerland, to stay in the single market and customs union (because all of these things were promised by the leave campaign) or was it to leave with no deal no matter how much damage it could do to our country?

www.libdems.org.uk/leave-cheated?utm_campaign=1808_s_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=libdems

Agree wholeheartedly! Nigel, Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris would negotiate a much better deal for the UK.

Alas too many left wing opposers ready to give away all we hold dear. What a very sad state of affairs. ☹️☹️

Well that may be true, but I am sure that if Farage were given an active role in the Brexit negotiations he would be there like a shot, putting in the hours on our behalf.

After all I think it was Farage's success in the local elections which compelled Cameron to give us the referendum, and the fantastic opportunity to get out of the EU.
And boy, we grabbed it with both hands didn't we ?!

Another fan of Nigel Farage here also Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris. I used to admire May but now think she is week and needs to go.

Would he really? It would be a change for him to be in Brussels. He has one of the worst attendance records of all the MEPs, though he still took the salary,

Wow starbox you are very brave to dare to mention Nigel Farage on here, especially in a complimentary way.

Don't you know he is the devil incarnate to most on Gransnet!! He and Donald Trump of course!

I tend to agree with you though. I feel Farage would not stand for any nonsense from the upstarts in Brussels, and we would be more likely to get the proper Brexit we voted for.

Is that the same Farage who failed to get elected to Parliament seven times, who when he was the UK representative on the EU Fisheries committee, only attended 1 meeting out of 41, who was relentlessly promoted by the BBC, appearing on QT 29 times at a time when no other MEP was ever invited to speak, who boasts that his children have German nationality so they will not lose the advantages of EU citizenship if the nightmare that is brexit actually happens, who made a statement on the night of the referendum that he thought that "Remain had just edged it" when he knew that Leave had won, enabling his currency speculator friends to gain millions?

Is that really the person you would want to lead this country over the edge of the cliff?