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Moaning Leavers, an explanation

(257 Posts)
Bridgeit Sat 04-Aug-18 08:28:37

Given the length of the very informative cut & paste articles posted on this site ref Leaving EU,isn’t it time leavers stopped saying ‘just get on with it’ surely if the cut & pastes are anything to go by, it is not rocket science to see that it is ,as many already realised a nigh on impossible task to unravel at anything like the speed leavers expect.. please get a reality check & let the Lady get on with finishing what has been started without criticising her handling of the negotiations. Seems some just love a scapegoat .

gillybob Sat 04-Aug-18 08:43:20

Oh I totally agree with you Bridgeit As a Remainer I sincerely wish I could wake up to find this was all a bad dream but that isn’t going to happen is it. I think TM is doing her best in extremely difficult (previously unknown) circumstances. Easy to criticise but I wonder if anyone else could have made a better job of it? Really?

lemongrove Sat 04-Aug-18 08:49:44

It was never going to be a speedy task, when do the EU move at anything other than a lumbering pace and from the UK side there was much to be thought about.
T May and all concerned ( civil service etc) will be doing the best they can do for a good result.

Jane10 Sat 04-Aug-18 08:50:32

Gillybob- spot on!

Auntieflo Sat 04-Aug-18 08:50:36

Totally agree with both Bridgeit and Gillybob.

mcem Sat 04-Aug-18 08:58:55

Extremely difficult (previously unknown) circumstances
I take that point but couldn't that be interpreted as blundering into an unknown situation with no real plan or understanding of the problems involved?
DC primarily to blame of course while T M was left to shovel the s***.

Bridgeit Sat 04-Aug-18 09:05:05

Who could have realistically have had a foolproof plan for jumping into the unknown, this is years worth of legislation.
I just don’t understand how leavers thought it would be that simple , they got their wish now in my opinion they should have the good grace to be patient , I do hope though that it won’t be like a longed for Christmas present, exciting to receive & unwrap, but bitterly disappointing in reality.

gillybob Sat 04-Aug-18 09:05:33

But surely anyone of any party would have been doing exactly the same mcem . No one had any idea how this would go. How awkward the EU would be did they? I really don’t think anyone can criticise TM for how things are going (which I admit aren’t good) because I honestly don’t think anyone else could do better.

Anniebach Sat 04-Aug-18 09:17:56

Well said gilly.

Peep Sat 04-Aug-18 09:23:12

Totally agree, spot on Gilly.

BlueBelle Sat 04-Aug-18 09:28:08

Maybe you can blame someone who was a firm remainer for taking on the job of leaving, was that just for her promotion to a badly wanted position, or did she think she was clever enough to pull it round ?
How can someone believe in one thing and work toward the opposite ?

Elegran Sat 04-Aug-18 09:33:02

I am not sure just when TM could have done all the stuff that has needed to be done until a) the decision was made and b) she was left holding the baby after Boris had had his fun promoting the idea and DC had left after he allowed it to happen without explaining to the electorate just what would be entailed.

Elegran Sat 04-Aug-18 09:34:56

When the leader steps back, the task of completing what was started on their watch goes to whoever doesn't hide behind the door.

Jalima1108 Sat 04-Aug-18 10:13:52

I agree Bridgeit and gillybob

How can someone believe in one thing and work toward the opposite ?
So do you think that Corbyn would make a better job of it as he has always been anti-EU? He does pretend to be a remainer now, though, so perhaps he has the answer.

Jalima1108 Sat 04-Aug-18 10:18:17

I should have added that I thought it was the remainers on here who are so extremely disparaging about TM and the negotiations.

In those circumstances, perhaps the OP should read 'Moaning Remainers'?

Anniebach Sat 04-Aug-18 10:28:54

Because BlueBell, it’s what PM’s have to do.

Jalima1108 Sat 04-Aug-18 10:31:48

How can someone believe in one thing and work toward the opposite ?
Perhaps all the better to reach a compromise than someone who is an extremist?

Poppyred Sat 04-Aug-18 10:40:39

Exactly Bluebell! She’s not trying very hard is she? Makes me sick to my stomach.... We need a strong leader who loves this country and is prepared to stand up and fight for what we voted for.

Grandad1943 Sat 04-Aug-18 10:49:28

I believe there is one major area where those who took the lead the in leave campaign should certainly have carried out extensive forward planning. That area was in regard to securing a customs union with the EU, for had any of those leaders given any thought to that they would have undoubtedly seen how difficult that would be to obtain.

Evidence of that lack of planning was demonstrated by David Davis when he stated in regard to obtaining a withdraw agreement at the start of the exit talks "these negotiations will be the easiest ever conducted. However, crucial to that agreement ever coming about would be a customs union which within the overall European Union Maastricht Treaty is inevitably linked with the free movement of labour.

In that, the EU negotiators have stated consistently that there can be no customs union agreement with Britain without free movement of labour as that is at the very basis of the EU along with the free movement of capital, goods and services.

I do not believe that the EU Negotiators are trying to make it difficult for Britain to leave, it is the simple fact that their hands are very firmly tied on this matter. In that, it is for the British negotiators to come forward with a solution as free movement of labour is clearly unacceptable, and that is something which they have consistently failed to do throughout all the negotiating sessions.

Britain signed up to the Maastricht agreement which was quite voluntary. Therefore, surely thought and advise should been given to the British public on how that situation could be resolved before anyone went to the polls in the referendum ballot.

Of course, in the above, it was not and the matter was hardly discussed. However, should Brexit day come without a customs agreement, then that will have the most profound effect on the operation of the ports and in that all of the UK population without a doubt I feel.

Smileless2012 Sat 04-Aug-18 10:51:12

IMO TM is doing the best she can in near impossible circumstances. Her own party is working against her, not to mention the unwillingness of the EU to take part in negotiations. They don't negotiate, they just say 'no' to anything that's put forward and that's the limit of their so called negotiations.

What we need is a strong country, not just a strong leader. The country and all political parties need to come together "to stand up and fight" for what the majority voted for.

I think it's reasonable to say that had she been PM instead of Cameron, there wouldn't have been a referendum and he, like the rat he is, jumped ship when he didn't get the result he wanted and anticipated.

I remember his speech outside number 10 when he announced the referendum would take place, how he'd remain as PM regardless of the the outcome. Wasn't it about 3 hours after the official result was known that he resigned?

Joelsnan Sat 04-Aug-18 10:52:04

None of us know what us going on behind the scenes all we talk about regarding how well or poorly the negotiations are going is purely speculation. (I doubt any of us are privy to actual discussions). Therefore it is wrong for anyone to make any judgement about anyone especially on biased remain/leave information being pumped into the media to keep anxiety levels high
Re the OP isn't it time leavers stopped saying 'get on with it'
I think the majority leavers are actually saying 'Leave them to get on with it'

MawBroon Sat 04-Aug-18 10:58:22

Exactly Bluebell! She’s not trying very hard is she? Makes me sick to my stomach.... We need a strong leader who loves this country and is prepared to stand up and fight for what we voted for

The latter part of this post strikes fear into my heart with echoes of UKIP and other sentiments. Who do you want? BoJo? JRM? Nigel Farage? Michael Gove? God help us.
It is entirely unfair to imply TM does not love her country and the current shambles seems to me like insisting a boxer goes into the ring with his hands tied behind his back. She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. There’s a well know saying about trying to please all of the people all of the time.

Luckygirl Sat 04-Aug-18 10:58:44

TM was handed a poisoned chalice; all the more so because her party is in disarray, so she cannot rely on their support. It is an impossible situation for her and for all of us.

Whichever way you voted no-one could have predicted the negotiating mess that TM and her trail of squabbling members have created. She gave away our bargaining tool by setting an end date early on; and she made a huge mistake in calling a vanity GE which blew up in her face.

I agree that she has got a tough task and she is probably doing her best; but a lot of the mess relates to the absence of support from her party and cabinet. I suspect that any leader of any party would have had this problem as Brexit is not a political party issue and all parties are split.

I do not see her as a scapegoat - she could have resigned long ago if she so chose. She is trying to bargain with no back-up and the EU are being intransigent, as one might have predicted. They don't want the UK to set a trend and they know that unless they reform in some way, the right wing parties will gain momentum.

If Brexit achieves anythiing it should be for the EU to take a long hard look at its policies,aims and actions and ask why the disaffection is not confined to a few hard-line Brexiteers in the UK.

It is a frightening scenario; and personally I doubt whether they will learn the lesson.

gillybob Sat 04-Aug-18 11:02:28

Exactly Maw it’s one giant ton of sh*t that’s to be sure, but I’m not sure anyone else could shovel it any better !

Grandad1943 Sat 04-Aug-18 11:17:56

TM went to both Poland and the Czech Republic only two weeks ago in an attempt to gather support for Britains position in the Brexit negotiations.

Despite the fact that both countries have far-right governments, no support was forthcoming. It would seem that there is no appetite amongst even the most hard-line in Europe to just "rip up the Maastricht Treaty, which Britain is seen as attempting to do in its handling of these Brexit negotiations.