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To worry about future generations

(55 Posts)
Joelsnan Wed 12-Sep-18 15:55:18

I woke early this morning so lay listening to world service/radio 4 till time to get up.
There was a report of a prison officer who had more than 25 years service and was giving a report to some committee. He stated that the type of prisoner had changed markedly recently. At one time the majority would 'get their heads down' and either take courses or just see out there time. He literally stated that the prisons are now filled with feral youths, who are very aggressive, cannot take instruction or direction.
This got me thinking, but later in the day i turned the TV to see a hearbroken man sat in his dilapidated car with his children around him as the baliffs came to call.
And i wondered what sort of society do we want to leave to those who follow.
Schools teach English to an infinite depth when wouldnt a good level of comprehension, vocabulary, reading and spelling suffice. Time save could reinstate domestic science teaching how to cook cheaply and nutritiously. Mathetmatics has always taught parts that for most are destined to the wastebin of the brain. Why not teach money management. We should also teach saving, if you cant afford it, save for it. One of those BBC programmes 'Live well for Less', highlights just how precarious so many families are with their flash homes, clothes, cars and holidays and no back up in case of redundancy or illness.
The mental health issue has soared, is this because as a society we are not gifting our children the tools and resilience to cope with the actul realities of life.

Iam64 Thu 13-Sep-18 18:37:08

GrannyGravy, about 1000 Sure Start Centres have closed in the past 8 or 9 years. Cameron was fond of saying he wanted more Sure Start Centres, at the same time his governments policies were closing them.

Our local council has cut front line services including child protection services so Sure Start, a preventive service in many ways, has no chance. The problem is that those preventive services helped so many families stay afloat, stay together and avoid statutory social work intervention. It's like rock and hard place. Struggling families need support. the support has been cut because it isn't statutory. More families end up with statutory intervention, who 10 years ago would have benefited from support services and managed - so it goes.

Austerity doesn't work. Look at the number of homeless people on our streets, at the increase in mental health/drug/alcohol problems. It isn't all down to feckless parenting, I'm sure of that.

oldbatty Thu 13-Sep-18 18:39:12

Austerity doesn't work because its cruel and its poor value for money.

The amount spent when people are in crisis is enormous.

Apricity Thu 13-Sep-18 22:01:28

What I worry about most is the almost unimaginable impact that climate change will have on all our precious grandchildren and their descendants. Overall our generation will be ok and probably our children but it's our grandchildren's generation that will be severely effected.

Climate change will impact every aspect of life on earth from water sustainability, the increasing incidence of severe weather events such as floods and droughts, hurricanes, wildfires, all farming and food production, loss of species diversity and flooding of low lying coastal areas as Arctic and Antarctic ice melts. It's already happening. All of these factors will have enormous impact on social stability both locally and globally. Some have predicted the next world war will be fought over water.

I cannot understand the willfull blindness of those who refuse to accept the compelling science and the desperate urgency of the need for the whole world to work together on this global issue.

Coconut Fri 14-Sep-18 14:58:04

It’s hard not to generalise, but from what I’ve seen in my career, many of our issues stem from poor or absent parenting. Of course there are the bad eggs that decent parents despair of, Ive spoken to many. This country does not tackle the roots of the issues, many thro the generations have been allowed to live off benefits and never work. Feral kids often come from uncaring homes, so there’s no deterrent or consequences for their actions. Prisons are a joke with a lack of staff and so much privatisation where profits are more important than rehabilitation and safety. The entire legal system needs reforming to get a grip of current issues, many sentences dished out are laughable.... the criminals certainly are laughing.... all the way back home. So many good teachers are leaving because of severe stress and if we had cctv in classes most people would be absolutely shocked at the behaviour. We do teach some essential lessons but there are also many lessons that are just a total waste of time. But no one ever speaks to teachers on the ground floor, the decisions are made up above by people who do not have a clue. The schools are full of poor souls with learning and behavioural difficulties, but it’s a “one size fits all” as so many specialised schools have closed. So they are not getting the specific help that they need, and others face continuous class disruption which impedes their learning and progression. It certainly is a depressing picture when you sit and think about it all .....

Craftycat Fri 14-Sep-18 15:01:01

I believe a lot of the problems in our jails can be put down to drugs. The vast majority of prisoners took drugs before they got there & it is apparently impossible to stop the getting into prisons.
Sort that problem& a lot of inmates could come out with a chance to lead a productive life.

BlueBelle Fri 14-Sep-18 15:56:37

I don’t agree that many issues come from absent parenting
It’s better to have one good parent than two warring ones and there are very many good single mothers or single fathers doing their best and doing a good job for their kids Its too easy to generalise
I really hate the word ‘feral’ kids it’s such a degrading term
Everything has been cut back to the bare bones , youth clubs, teenage mentoring, special schools, mental health beds, police, prison officers everything is running on empty mothers are forced out to work just at the age when kids need them around

Lilyflower Fri 14-Sep-18 16:13:24

Oldbatty, there is a wealth of evidence in the public domain that children from parents in stable marriages are healthier, happier and do better in school and life generally.

Many boys in inner cities come from families where one man will ‘baby father’ many heirs but settle with none of the mothers thus depriving them of financial, moral and emotional support. The children lack role models and find none in female only primary schools. They turn to gangs for protection and to provide a surrogate family but the other boys are as immature and emotionally scarred as they are and the results are disastrous. We read about the consequences every day in the papers.

Rosina Fri 14-Sep-18 17:31:25

I read a piece some years back where the writer was bemoaning the poor state of society, the rudeness and ingratitude of children, the breakdown of decent life - and at the end I saw that the author was a contemporary of Confucious, and the comments were from about 400 BC.
Bad news is on a loop on TV, and I once saw the same distressing interview with a survivor of a terrorist attack at least five times in a very short interlude - and we don't have TV on much during the day. Caitlin Moran wrote a great piece in the Times magazine some months ago where she said that there is so much going on that is good, positive, life enhancing and making the world a better place - but that is rarely if ever in the news. I am horribly aware of the nightmare scenarios that some people have to face every day, and all the wrong things that are in our society, but at the same time we should balance this against what is good; and there is plenty of it. Take heart.

starbird Fri 14-Sep-18 17:36:52

I was taught basic sewing and cooking at school although I did it at home anyway. Also, saw my mother putting shillings in various tins for clothes, holiday ( not an annual event), Christmas, etc ( with a bonus when the meter was emptied). Whatever it was you didn’t get it until you had the money. These days the money lenders, from banks to doorstep types, are partly to blame for making it easy and normal to borrow. A recent family on eat well for less were showed how to potentially save £17,000 a year! As much as or more than an Amazon delivery person’s net salary!
The OP may be interested to listen to the series of BBC podcasts called ‘Morality in the 21st Century’ - discussions led by Rabbi Jonathan Sachs with guest speakers and sixth form pupils participating.
Easy and free to download I have them and many other podcasts on my phone to see me through sleepless nights or on long train journeys!

oldbatty Fri 14-Sep-18 17:54:09

Many boys in inner cities come from families where one man will ‘baby father’
I'm not sure about this really.
Would we be so keen to make generalisations about the countryside or small towns?

Rosina Fri 14-Sep-18 18:10:58

I read 'Inside' by John Hoskison; a chilling depiction of what drugs are doing to the lives of prisoners and how far reaching the effects. Well written by a man who ended up 'inside' having been a decent professional person, it could not more graphically describe what is wrong and what needs to be done.

Sassieannie Fri 14-Sep-18 20:10:16

I'm concerned about how difficult it is for the next generation to even get a roof over their heads. Two bedroom properties around here are easily at least £650 a month to rent, to buy the cheapest house is about £150,000. A lot of jobs would pay around £18K to £20K a year, and I'm talking warehousing/care work on zero hours contracts. It's a scary prospect.

quizqueen Fri 14-Sep-18 20:54:09

In my opinion, a lot of the cause of feral youths is woman thinking it's okay to have children by multiple men who then all scarper and expect those who work and choose to do the right thing to support them financially. They often have no good role models in their life, little discipline and think everything that happens to them is someone else's fault so have no inclination to improve their lot in life. I know there a few who have bucked against this trend and done okay but not that many, I fear, in the grand scheme of things. Also, many of today's youth see others having nice things and think they can't manage without them and that should have them too without putting any effort in to earn them

Hm999 Fri 14-Sep-18 21:52:38

...woman thinking it's okay to have children by multiple men who then all scarper and expect those who work and choose to do the right thing to support them financially...
I've never met a woman who's chosen to have children by lots of men, I think they live in hope that this man will be a keeper, and then are disappointed. And given the current upset over benefits, I've no concept of how single mums make ends meet if dad is not offering some financial help.

Iam64 Sat 15-Sep-18 08:48:42

Hm999 - it's so easy to blame women for everything isn't it. Like you, the women I've met who had children by different fathers had one thing in common, that is a desire to have a family, to bring their children up in a stable home with a loving step/father.
They made mistakes, they forgot the old 70's mantra that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet a prince.

Anniebach Sat 15-Sep-18 09:02:37

Is it a desire to have children or a need to have a Man in their life? Many tolerate abuse just to keep the man with them, children come along, the man leaves and along comes another. They don’t know how to go it alone , don’t try. They must have little self confidence, so sad.

pollyperkins Sat 15-Sep-18 09:05:58

Im with Apricity. Global warming/climate change is the single issue tgat withh affect everyone in the world long term ,long after everyone has forgotten about Brexit, poverty, isis and all the other things we currently worry about. The whole future of mankind is at stake and it may well affect our grandchildren

LJP1 Sat 15-Sep-18 09:58:45

Funnily enough the younger generation now uses fewer drugs, has fewer children who are unwanted and abandoned, a lower crime rate, etc. etc..

Perhaps we are putting too many in prison early on, rather than helping them grow up into a welcoming world and they learn from their companions.

Or are we creating a subculture, separated from a decent life?

oldbatty Sat 15-Sep-18 10:02:18

I think lack of social mobility and lack of hope is a major factor.

Joelsnan Sat 15-Sep-18 10:36:01

I think we need to teach new parents that strucure and authority is very important when raising children. Children thrive when they have some strucure such as knowing when they will eat, sleep etc.
Far too many parents have given control to their children, 'where shall we go', 'what would you like to eat' etc. Some may feel they are being loving by allowing this but I think quite the opposite, it is up to the parent to make and apply the decisions and not lazily devolve responsibility.
Schools are accused of excluding too many children, but children who consider they control the situations are often incompatible with schooling because of the lack of self control and strucure they require within that setting.

Anniebach Sat 15-Sep-18 10:43:26

Interesting Joelsnan, reminds me of a young teacher who ticked off a few children who hadn’t done their homework, the parents of one of the children accused the teacher of verbal abuse!

starbird Sat 15-Sep-18 16:47:44

I think you’re right Joelsnan. It’s scary for a young child to have control as he doesn’t have the tools to deal with it.

I think we should bring back a form of National Service but more like Community service, with lots of physical activities, music and art included (like Finland or Denmark).

GabriellaG Sun 16-Sep-18 01:06:41

A good level of spelling and grammar was evidently bypassed by a certain poster, even though that person is aware that 'young people' could benefit from learning comprehension, spelling etc.
Seniors are not above criticism.

Diana54 Sun 16-Sep-18 07:02:59

I don't worry about those close to me I put a lot of effort into ensuring my childen were well brought up and emotionally stable and as far as I can see they are in turn following that line with their children.

An earlier post highlighted one mistake many parents make " what would you like for supper darling" immediately the kids realise they have control and it all goes downhill from there. As a caring parent you don't deliberately prepare food the children dislike but you choose the menu, year by year it is up to you the decide what they are allowed to do, who they socialise with and who you trust to supervise them. If you make a mistake and they are abused in some way it can ruin their whole life, not until their mid teens are they capable of making decisions consistently.

Government policy has a lot to do with this decay in society, a single mum on benefit cannot have a man living with her or benefit will stop. So the children have no father and she drifts from man to man trying to find stability, having more children in the process. The children in turn see no other prospect and most follow the same lifestyle, it no wonder that gangs rule many areas, not just inner city either.

I say giving benefit to single mums who have the fathers living with them would go a long way to improve society.

Madgran77 Sun 16-Sep-18 13:51:41

GabriellaG ....Hmmm...your point?,