Abuse and the failure to prevent it.

Thanks janeainsworth, I'm aware of 101. One of the difficulties is that it often times takes an hour for the call to be answered.
That tells us a great deal about the pressure the Police are under. People do seem to feel that it's ok to call the Police for all manner of things that don't involve crime or high risk to individuals.

Iam 101 is the non-emergency number in which you can report concerns to the police, and you can also email them.
I think it actually does give confidence to the public if they know that community policing is there for nonemergency situations as well as the headline stuff.

The fact that the police are the only service that has to respond to a 999 type call doesn't mean we should all use them as such.
Yes, call 999 if someone is a risk to themselves or others but not because a possibly stroppy/ unhappy/anxious teenager is being disrespectful at the supermarket.

It was the swearing and criticising which attracted my attention in the first place. The fact that this was done in a relatively quiet voice made me think that the girl knew what she was doing by not openly and loudly making a scene. I only heard because I was right next to them. If the girl had problems she would be unlikely to be able to control her abuse and swearing to a low level only to be heard by the lady with the arm crutches or so she thought. It seem very cruel and calculating and very much as if she knew exactly how to issue the abuses.
It shows the changes in what is considered acceptable these days. I would never have dared swear in the presence on my parents or any other adult. The language is not acceptable and the conduct is not acceptable. They are getting "permission" to act badly by being allowed to disrespect people.

Endre123
I don't know what sort of la la land you live in but here in Southend pop 179,000, they would probably have a go at me for wasting police time.

Very harsh Endre you have no idea at all of the backstory what if the teenager had just been bullied or abused and was overcome trying to get her mothers attention what if she has ADHD you are judging she needs a few hours in the police station without knowing a thing .....oh my word
A teenage girl having a temper tantrum is not a police matter at all half of the original complaint is that the teenage girl did nothing to help the mum and as they went out to the car she was grumbling at putting the trolly away talk about a storm in a teacup

The mother did exactly the right thing she ignored the bad behaviour

Westerly and Jaycee5 ...... Maybe a local newspaper would be interested in nightmare neighbour stories and the lack help or resolve available to you. People have been killed in these type of scenarios when someone with obvious mental health issues can just snap for no apparent reason.

Iam64 We have the police here several times a week. It would often be better for it to be an ambulance or a psychiatric nurse but it is the police or nothing. I don't call them now but other neighbours do because they don't understand the situation.

Lizbethanne I agree with you and I don't understand why people don't prioritise this kind of issue when it matters. It is very frustrating.
Another problem is that the services are decimated but there is no attempt to make the alternatives better. Care in the community is fine when the community can cope and is listened to but the system effectively says 'hey community, this is your problem now. We can't talk to you about it because of confidentiality but keep an eye out for any problems regardless of whether you have the skills of emotional strength to deal with them or not.'

Iam police investigate welfare and civil matters.

They mop up a lot of social care work these days...

Email or write to the head of the school as this girl was showing her school in a bad light.

endrel123 - how on earth is this a matter for the Police? What is the offence they're investigating.

Lizbethanne - well said.

I would never condone abuse of any kind. But I do think that in this particular situation you did not know enough about either party to merit reporting it to anybody. The mother was clearly able to shop, drive etc. The daughter may have had behavioural or emotional problems you know nothing about.

It's a police matter. Things have moved on a lot in witnessing abuse like this. Often what can be seen in public is only the tip of the iceberg. The police know how to deal with nasty teenagers and a few hours at the station can change a young persons' life for the good.

I can imagine it can be very upsetting to witness this sort of abuse. The older lady may be worn down by her disability and/or illness plus having to put up with this girls' bad behaviour.

The store can help police identify them and do a welfare call. Don't worry about the age of the girl, she will come under police radar at some time as she will go on to be a nuisance somewhere else.

Abuse of vulnerable is no longer acceptable in any form. Those who see it and don't report are as bad as the abusers.

Strikes me some of the comments here are a bit harsh.

However, the only thing OP really can do is offer to help if the situation occurs again.

I do realize this takes courage, but an offer to help should be possible. If you get a dusty answer, you can just say no more.

Local authority services do not have the staff or the funding to deal with anything but the most serious cases. Many staff work overtime for free and go way beyond their duties to try and deliver a service that has almost no resources or funding. Social workers are overloaded with cases and yet have nowhere to refer people to - we do not have enough children's homes, foster carers, residential schools, elderly homes, nursing homes, midwives, care staff, physios, OT's, mental health workers and so on. I work with young people now, have lots of experience of disability issues and services and had to fight for services for my mother before she died and now for my father's palliative care. Until we get a government who provides local authorities with more resources, services will not get better.

I witnessed a teenager screaming at her parents in a restaurant insisting that they buy her a new mobile phone. If they did then that was the answer for her bad behaviour; she always got what she wanted no matter how she behaved.. Some people have no idea how to discipline their children and that is why they grow up to be obnoxious teenagers. Also, no excuse allow them to be grossly overweight. Whatever the reason for this altercation you witnessed, ultimately it's usually down to poor parental disciplining.

I have been thinking a lot about adult social services at the moment as they seem to barely exist.
My nightmare neighbour is back. She was give a care co-Ordinator and told that her care plan included moving and that she would be helped with doing that.
She spent nearly 7 months at a place for people with anti-social behaviour but has come back pregnant.
She was better behaved for a few days but then rang our buzzers loudly and repeatedly at 1 am. When I didn't get out of bed immediately she threw rocks at my window and stood hammered on the windows of my downstairs neighbour shouting at them. The husband there is nearly 90 and going blind.
My next door neighbour's grandson eventually let her in (the council had told us to 'just ignore it' when this kept happening before) as his grandmother is in her late 80s and bedbound.
She is away with the fairies at the moment. She is going to marry Robbie Williams when he finishes transitioning so expecting her to arrange a move is ridiculous.
Her flat is at ground level, has full length windows an hedges at the side of the window. She is targeted by men who shout at her through the windows if she won't let them in and the police have been no help so neither she or us are safe with her there (the men threaten us if we try to help her).
The Housing Officers cannot help her to move because the law has changed after some started helping their friends and we can't discuss it with anyone there because of confidentiality.
Nothing is going to happen without adult social services getting involved. Her family have tried to help but can't cope with her for very long and she sister is also anti-social so we don't really want her around.
All we get is more diary logs to fill in for the council to ignore. None of my neighbours can do this without me going through every line with them so it is really stressful.
I had to sleep in my living room last night because my bedroom was full of pot smoke and it was hard to breathe.
I alternate between wanting to help her and wanting to throw things at her. Adult social services are the only answer but, as you have found, they present people with a Catch 22. If she was well enough to ask for help, she would be well enough to arrange a transfer.
Sorry to make this about me but I've had about an hour's sleep.
In your situation, all you can do is think about how you might be able to help in a similar situation. Maybe if you had gone over and started to help the lady yourself and then say to the teenager 'can you just grab that' or some such. I think we have all had a 'why didn't I step in' moment.
It may not have been as bad as it seems. I'm not sure that I was always as nice to my mother as a teenager as I should have been. I would have helped with packages etc.but she can be a bit of a martyr and not particularly encouraging of help.
You did try to help after the event. I do think that some of these rules are designed to get around the impact of cuts. Some councils seem to be more flexible than others.

You only watched a snapshot of a few minutes - you don't really know what is going on.

The girl may have disabilities herself - autism or Tourettes syndrome for example and her mother may be mortified by people watching her and judging her and perhaps saying nothing is the best way to deal with the situation without escalating it

Clearly you didn't have the guts to ask the lady if she needed help, so get over it and if you see this kind of thing happening again do something about it. I did step in once when a woman was hitting her small child and saying "I'll murder you" and I was given a load of abuse. Can't win can one?

Maybe the young girl has autism (for example). The adult was possibly dealing with the problem as only family would know how best to do. I agree you could have offered
practical help with loading the shopping, but not sure why you thought SS should get involved.

Sugarpufffairy
Lol...I'm far too outspoken, independent and self-confident to ever allow someone talk to me as the girl in the shop purportedly did to the woman she was with.
We don't know the full story, only a one-sided 3rd party version.
No-one I know would dream of acting like either the schoolgirl or the bystander/OP.

The chances are that had you said anything they would both have rounded on you. The woman may have been disabled but was not asking for help. There has to be a limit on what can possibly be done. I would say it is different if the person were mentally incapable or a child. You can hardly go to the school and request an identity parade after all. There's nothing you can do but feel sorry for the pair, I don't think anyone would have done anything different in the circumstances.

I think the best option would have been to go over to the lady and asked her if she would like some help packing as she seemed to be struggling. If she accepted your help and the girl made nasty comments about the speed you could have politely and calmly suggested if she were to help we would all get it sorted much quicker as many hands make light work.

You could also look out for the lady, if you recognise her, on another occasion and mention what you saw and ask her if she felt she needed more help or support. Her response without the girl being there will be all telling.

Be very careful about other involvement as it could turn round to smack you in the face.

Westerley I dont know what I would have done but I am glad there are people who care enough to try to help in bad situations