Postie's and dogs, a war of attrition with my new postie! Advice please!

I have three dogs and agree with Jalima. Post men should not be expected to deliver to houses where there are dogs running loose. It's down to you Farmnanjulie to ensure the postie can deliver the mail without encountering this potential hazard. Get a box for the outside of the garden or ensure your dogs are in a fenced off area.

New legislation which came into force in 2014 now means that dog owners can be prosecuted if their dog attacks another person either on their property or in a public place, with up to five years jail time if their dog injures somebody, and up to 14 years in jail if the person is killed. It’s not just postal workers who are at risk either – the CWU estimates that around 400 telecoms engineers are attacked by dogs whilst carrying out their jobs each year.

Or you could be sued - could cost a lot!

Most dogs will be in their houses, not roaming around, presumably guarding their property.

2,275 dog attacks have taken place on postmen and women across the UK in 2017-18. And while the overall number of UK attacks has reduced in the last year by 8%, due to a greater understanding through our dog awareness campaigns, it still remains unacceptably high and in some postcode area attacks are disappointedly increasing.
(Royal Mail Group website)

He's not in the wrong job - people need to show more responsibility and keep their dogs under control.

Royal Mail should put him on another round! Simples!

If all the other rounds have dogs then he's not fit for service.

My family have a farm and have to drive down to the nearest post office to fetch all their mail.
However, I think a large post box at the gate and somewhere to leave parcels if possible would be the best idea.
You can also buy remote controlled wireless door bells, I'm not sure how they work but it would be worth investigating.

Although you say your dogs are perfectly friendly and would not hurt anyone, that is not really the point. Even the nicest dog could, if upset or defending its property or family, turn on someone and, even if not bite them, could terrify them.

If your dogs were free and running round me, even if they were being friendly, I would be cautious too, and we have owned dogs as do my family.

The man is a postie because he has bills to pay and maybe that’s the only job he could get. All dogs are unpredictable so if you choose to let your dogs run free in your garden. Don’t expect anyone to come skipping up your garden path without fear. My son was a postie for a while and was told by bosses not to enter gardens where dogs run free

Did Farmnan actually say the dogs are outside unsupervised? Ours are outside with us whenever we are working - which is most of the day but that doesn't mean they are unsupervised. One has to be chained up because she chases tractors but the other one is well behaved and even likes postmen!!

Elegran is right about the pack leader situation. Far better to restrain the more dominant one. They soon settle on a chain in fact so long as you are nearby they tend to relax. You can't stop them barking though. Even the most friendly and placid dog will bark when somebody approaches their territory.

I can't believe some-one frightened of dogs takes a job a a Postman. Why is it always new/relief Postmen who seem to have a problem delivering post correctly/securely. My DM received post for herself & 4 neighbouring properties one day.

Shoving post through the bars of your gate, hardly a secure delivery by Royal Mail, I hope he was reprimanded for that. I do agree that one answer may be a box for your letters, many farms with a long farm track have had to put these in.

On the other side of the coin, about 60 years we had a lovely cross breed pup who used to love running out to meet the Postie. One day our regular Postie knocked on the door & asked my DM what had happened to the pup as it had become aggressive. It turned out that the relief Postie had kicked our pup when he ran out to meet him, From that day forward he was kept in but he would leap up at the letterbox (high up in the door) & grab the mail.Also if my Uncle came into the room wearing his uniform cap the pup would snarl at him until he removed it.

In your position I would carry on complaining to Royal Mail but be willing to compromise by placing a secure post box outside your front gate.

I think dog-owners sometimes need to remember the dynamics of the dog/wolf pack. The leader makes decisions, the pack follows them. The den is a stronghold, to be protected. Strangers are potential enemies until they have been checked out by the leader and their presence is accepted and familiar. The leader is informed of anyone (friend or foe) entering the territory of the pack, and unless they have been accepted by the pack as honorary members (as the previous posties had been) , they are only admitted on the leader's say-so. If the leader is not present to give them a "pass" then the pack will continue to tell the leader loudly that they are crossing the boundary. That doesn't mean that they will attack them, but it doesn't always mean that they will not , if they feel they have enough authority to act without specific instructions.

However lovely the dogs are, their instinct is to protect your property against strangers, verbally at least and as far as the postie knows potentially physically too.

Carolpaint's suggestion of a wheelie bin and a wireless bell seems a good one. You can wheel the bin to your front door and not have to carry the parcels/letters far, the dogs and the rain can't get at the parcels and the postie won't have to brave the dogs (which can be very unpleasant for him if he has had bad experiences previously.)

If he is safe behind the gate, he can risk speaking to them in a friendly manner, and if you are at home you can treat him as a friend, which the dogs will pick up on.

They will still anounce to you that he is there, though, or to the world in general if you are out. That is what they see as their job in life. Even friends have to have their arrival announced to the boss, who will then greet them or send them away.

But make sure the wheelie bin isn't mistaken for the landfill bin and emptied into the bin lorry!

I have a terrier like that but she is kept in the back garden, never ever the front, so that is your only solution if you want things delivered.
If they did bite anyone a fence would seem cheap by comparison.

I am surprised this postman was given this round under the circumstances ! Surely he could deliver elsewhere and swop with someone who likes dogs !! It is disgraceful that he refuses to deliver to you properly and that your flowers were left to wilt at your gate !

The easiest solution I can see is: Put a wheelie bin just behind the gate, insert a wireless bell. I used to visit Mental Health patients at home, we are guests in their homes, I was fine with their dogs and likewise the dogs. Nurses from other countries found it difficult but what is an issue here is, that community visiting you have to be the right person for the job. Am getting concerned with all the scared and spiteful posters, how ever did we have an empire?

Unreasonable as it no doubt feels, I am afraid if you want your post delivered, you will either need to fence off the path to your front door, or put up a mail box and parcel safe outside your gate.

Frankly, I do not understand why people who are afraid of dogs become postmen, but that's just me.

I agree you cannot keep the dogs in from 8.30 to 3 every day on the off chance that there might be a postal delivery, but either you have to make sure the dogs and the new postie don't come face to face or drive nine miles to collect your post. I would boggle at the latter solution.

There is something about posties that drives many dogs mad.
They might be the sweetest natured usually, but when this person comes up regularly to their home, which they're supposed to protect, the alarm bells ring.

How about putting a little shed alongside your gate with a large window that could act as a postbox for the larger items.
As an aside though, our little cocker spaniel always used to bark at the postie - but not bite. Now she is old and deaf, she misses him but when she spots the letters on the mat she barks at them!

Maybe when the postie started the job, he wasn't so afraid but has become more so as he faces less friendly dogs. My son is slightly afraid of dogs and I think dogs must sense it because he has been bitten on more than one occasion even though he had done nothing to the dog.
Sadly, Staffies do have a bad reputation because of the feckless owners who have them. They might be brilliant dogs in the right hands but they do need the proper training otherwise they can be very unruly...just like any other dog. However, they do tend to grab hold of something and shut their jaws absolutely tight when they do bite so I think that can make them seem more scary. Add that to the fact that they are often illegally used as fighting dogs and there's probably your answer to why people are nervous of them. I have had to rescue another dog from one and the only way to do that was cut off the air supply by twisting the collar tight. It was a very traumatic for the other dog and its owner. When I was young, Alsatians were the breed that had the bad reputation and, no doubt, in time it will be another breed that goes through the mill.
It does seem odd that the Post Office haven't transferred him to another role like in the sorting office. Are you the only person he refuses to deliver to?

Very true Millibear

I would not leave two lovely staffies, or any other dog for that matter, alone and unsupervised in a garden. Far too many deeply unpleasant people steal dogs to use as ‘bait dogs’ in dog fighting, or take them to sell to others or ransom back to their owners. We often don’t hear about this because, so I’ve been told, police forces do not collate this information amongst different areas.

Even the most good natured dog can bite if he is frightened or is protective of you. Some people are frightened, terrified, phobic or even allergic to dogs, and these people can’t all guarantee getting jobs in dog free areas.

We have a lovely, calm, happy dog who is wonderful with very young children and with most people, but he looked very thoughtfully (!) at our window cleaner, who does NOT like dogs, so when the window cleaner comes to our house, I make sure that our dog is safe away from any possible accusations of biting, etc. Again, I was told that the very badly drafted ‘Dangerous Dogs Act’ can be used against the owner of a dog who puts someone in fear, even though the dog does not actually bite the person.

Sounds like a large box at the end of your drive, home made or bought, plus a doorbell there, might be the answer.

Hope all resolves between you and your postman! ?

Well - how ridiculous!

If you want this public servant to deliver your post then you will have to chain up your dogs, put a box outside the perimeter fence or create dog-free access to your front door. Why should he be expected to run the gauntlet of your barking dogs? How selfish is that?

He is not obliged to like your dogs, nor to take your word that they are "just being friendly" - how many times did I hear that in my home-visiting career!?

I think you are being wholly unreasonable.

You complained to the post office!!!! - I simply cannot believe the gall of it!

He has a duty to leave the post somewhere secure, but you also have a duty - to create the circumstances in which he can safely and comfortably do so.

I was going to say "Words fail me" - but clearly they do not!

I am the wife of a retired postman (27years) in the job and I have lost count of the amount of dog bites and tetanus injections he had endured over the years. There have been owners who have said he never bit anyone else and have never apologised and owners who have said its part of the job get over it, and hardly any who have ever taken responsibility for what their dogs have done.
Royal Mail's stance on it in those days was if a dog is loose you do not have to deliver the mail but return to office and get the mail collected. The post man who left mail and wedged in gates was wrong to do so but probably thought he was doing you a favour instead of having you collect it.
As for being a jobsworth, we all start out in life with good intention, maybe this postman has had a very bad experience with a careless owner. Should he have to give up a job he probably enjoys because of someone else's thoughtlessness?
I'm not saying you're wrong to complain, I'm just saying I can see both sides and I think as others have said if you have the dogs running loose, to avoid this happening again, (maybe there are other postman who are not dog lovers/ or who have had a bad experience), a large vessel where the post can be left safely and securely without approaching the dogs would seem the most sensible solution long term.
It is the long term that counts, not knee jerk reactions and takings sides.

I have noticed my daughter's neighbour has a large metal box at their gate, marked "parcels". Could you not do something like that? I am terrified of dogs so I know how your postman feels. I've always thought of staffies as fighting dogs, even if you say they are friendly, how would the postman know that.

What an unpleasant lot some of you are. Having a go is not constructive. I'm surprised anyone asks for advice at all.

I agree with FarNorth. It doesn't have to be a total solution to make things easier. A box large enough for small parcels would mean that cards could be left about larger boxes.
There is probably no ideal solution unless this postman leaves (which in my experience is the kind of thing that happens just after you have paid out money and taken steps to make things easier).

Could you not set up a cordless door bell outside on the gate so that the postie could ring you to come out and collect the post/parcels. I have one for this purpose and it works well. up to 30m distance.