Class

I find it rather distasteful that people are still class-conscious, but to me class is a matter of royalty, aristocracy (those who are not members of a royal family, but have a title such as Earl, Duke, Baron etc.) middle class which embraces professional people i.e. anyone with a university degree who practices a profession, school teachers, technicians, business owners. Working class - those employed by others, both craftsmen and those with no formal training.
Money doesn't come into it IMO - plenty of titled people are quite poor these days and no-one who has a lot of money but no culture could be considered to belong in any class in my book.

I have no lots of unskilled workmen and women who were cultured people with lovely manners and we can all find it difficult to know where to place Mr. Trump - stinking rich, but no manners or culture as far as I can see.

Magrithea - I came out as traditional working class - I'm pleased .

In the online test, I got "New Affluent Worker"... the 1st "criteria" is "usually young". Ha, at 59 I don't think so but I'll have that....

‘How can reading poetry, novels and biographies and playing the piano define class - horrible word .’

How can it not? Class is related to education, culture and values and it is connected with money insofar as money can buy your children the knowledge and values that convey social superiority. Otherwise money is a neutral qualification. I live a mile from one of the richest towns in England and it is full of money-and-no-class individuals who have not read a book in their lives. What is the point of their riches? They seem to know this as they send their children to the local prep schools to pick up on what they missed.

Do remember years ago having a Northern boyfriend who perceived me as ‘posh’ because of my southern accent. And affluent background. He defined himself as working class as from ordinary streets of Warrington and northern accent, obvs. When I pointed out he worked in management and had gone to university, whereas I was in a union, on shopfloor, went to an FE college, so far more working class than him, he lost his mind! This was in the 80s!
These outdated ideas are so in need of being thrown in the bin of some archive programme on bbc4.

joanne Lumley has class
She has a blooming annoying voice that breathyness is like a nail on the blackboard to my ears

I took the test and it said that I was Elite class. I have never been classed as that before

I did the test and came out as 'established middle class' tosh!!
I did the test a second time and lied about the finances, but everything else was the same, the people I mix with, the places I go, my interests. Now I'm working class!!
Which I am because I was paid for the work I did.

Exactly so, Petra. I tried it in different ways. The only thing that seemed to make a difference was money, which gave an ‘elite’ result. Total tosh.

Seems Class is determined by education or money . I don’t agree sorry

On the BBC one I came out as Established Middle Class - should I be embarrassed?

I personally think that 'class' is defined largely by the values one puts on integrity.

You can have a lot of dosh and a Super-Yacht but if you ain't got a shred of integrity or can barely spell the word 'scruples' then you ain't got class.

Mister (I refuse to call him "sir') Phillip Green is a prime example of lack of integrity......therefore even lower than the so-called 'Underclass'.

Not everyone says that, Annie. Knowledge doesn't come purely from formal education, it is acquired by being interested in the outside world and not staying wilfully ignorant, money can come from the lottery which is completely random and has nothing to do with the individual, or from dealing in drugs or prostitution, which are definitely not classy, and no-one can choose their ancestors.

Some years ago when I registered with an estate agent in Surrey and gave a Midlands address the woman suggested I must actually be a local because of the way I spoke! Now back in the Midlands I can assure her not everyone has a Brummie accent, no matter how long they have lived there. Why did she judge me by my voice?

I have the same problem as Nonnie with my voice. I’ve lived in the Liverpool area for much of my life, but I don’t have a LIverpool accent. People keep asking me where I come from! Not everyone has a scouse accent. Some of us just sound neutral.

Very well said BlueBelle

The above post refers to the post by BlueBelle on page 1

I have just read in Grayson Perry's "The Descent of Man" that "Anthropologist Kate Fox . . . . thinks that the clearest marker of class in men is how much bare flesh thet are willing to expose in any given situation. An upper-middle-class man woild never be seen in public wearing shorts unless doing sport, and would never be seen with his shirt off unless on the beach or by a pool. My (middle-class) wife said she would rather see me without trousers in the kitchen than barechested. A middle-class man might not even roll his shirtsleeves above his elbow, so coded is flesh. The middle classes, with their high value placed on learning and cerebral ability, can frown at the sight of a male torso. Perhaps it is the association with heavy manual labour; perhaps they see something grotesque in the flaunted flesh, the tattoos, the beer gut, as opposed to the buttoned-up, middle-class, controlled body"

Definitely true about the bare male torso. Not convinced about the shorts, though. I’ve known several upper middle class men who wear shorts in public, even if not doing sport, because they find them comfortable in warm weather.

Class is definitely a concept still encountered in British everyday life. The ones at the top, who've never wanted for anything in their life, look down on the "oicks" as I used to hear Rugby schoolboys referring to the ordinary working class people they encountered. Those with wealth & privilege demonstrate a spurious confidence and sense of entitlement denied to the less privileged. I sound like a Commie! I'm not, but I feel deeply about social justice. Why should the upper classes get the best schooling for their children and access to professions through their networks? They can pay for private health care: no waiting lists for them; no classes of 30 or more for their children, no Grenfell Tower housing. I met a naval officer once who said he was a dyed-in-wool conservative until he had to visit a factory as part of his university education. He told me he walked in at one door and out the other a socialist. He had no idea people had to work in such conditions. It is in the interests of most upper class people to maintain class divisions as self interest, in the individualistic society of the 21st Century rules.

I agree Jaxie ++.
So lets have a revolution! No. I'm too old, and look what followed the Russian revolution.
The only way is to try to change things one step at a time.

It’s not necessarily the upper classes who get the best schooling for their children, it’s also ordinary people who have worked extremely hard to send their children to good fee-paying schools (if the children are bright enough). I know because we have several people like this is my family.

It would be much better, of course, if ALL schools were good. Not the case yet, sadly.

If only Beckham had owned up and paid the fine, that would have been class of a sort. Better than trying to weasel out of it! He should now donate the money to a charity.

To my mind class is as much about good manners, consideration of others and a willingness to be community minded as anything else. It is certainly not a out bragging to others about how much you have and what your possessions cost etc.