Marks & Spencer’s selling Hijabs for young children.

Watched Simon Reeve in the Med last night when he ws in Gaza a woman in a headscarf was running a work yard where men were making bricks out of cinders and coal dust. She was definetly in charge, so a headscarf doesn't always indicate subjugation.

Sexualising young girls is vile. Searching them in headscarves is as sinister as letting your dd wear tops with ‘future wagg’ On it. I have seen both and both made me feel ill.

Y y to that trisher agree with you

notanan2 the concept that all Muslims believe exactly the same things is completely wrong. There are some who cover younger children, some who never cover. Of course it's not a requirement of Islam it is a cultural requirement and Muslims come from many different places.

Once we are Brexited look out for less equality in the work place and that will affect women the most, just as zero hours contracts do
You can’t keep off Brexit can you?
Another fact?

I have heard from muslims including ones that chose to wear head coverings as adults that it is considered sinister/inappropriate for children that age to have their hair covered every day.

It is NOT an Islamic requirement. It s sexualising young children. The western equivalent would be putting 3 year olds in bras.

PECS I haven't seen any research either but like oldgimmer, I have noticed increasing numbers of women who aren't just dressing modestly but are wearing full veil and burka. There is also an increase in men wearing traditional clothing to work as well as to Mosque.
I wonder if its a way of stating commitment to faith and culture in the face of increased suspicion and Islamaphobia following 9/11 and the increase in terrorist attacks by members of the Muslim community. It's important to add that the majority of terrorists seem to be disaffected young men, with a history of drug use, petty crime and involvement in 'western culture' .

It's not the men I actually fear Mycat there are some women who have acheived great things but who will given the chance pull up the ladder and leave other women in the s**t. Once we are Brexited look out for less equality in the work place and that will affect women the most, just as zero hours contracts do. Interestingly more women are now joining trade unions, which at least gives some hope.

I think the creeping down grading of what it is to be a woman can be seen in the increasing visibility of the bhurka, the quite frankly ludicrous swathing of tiny girls in black as the op mentions to the steady erase of women’s rights by the shrill and mysogynistic Of some elements of the trans ‘community’ oh and Lib Dem’s ludicrous and frightening ‘non man’ stance.

I actually feel it’s more dangerous for women and girls now than in the past.

Men are erasing us and we are complicit. They are using religion, culture and now ludicrously self ID.

Feminism needs to wake up again women.

grumpa you and many others assume that these restrictions are always imposed by men, in fact there are many Muslim women who choose to cover their head and to wear conservative clothing. The tradition is also often passed on by the women in a family. Of course there are cases where men impose their views but regarding this as solely an issue of male imposition is too simplistic.

"How interesting that these prohibitions are all about women."

Good point, Luckygirl. It cannot be right that some men persist in seeking to impose restrictions on women's wear in the 21st century which are not paralleled by corresponding restrictions on men.

The only rational restriction I can think of is indecent exposure, which should be regulated by Parliament and not by churches.

I live in an urban area with a long-established Muslim population.

I've noticed a gradual change from Muslim women wearing shalwar kameez in bright colours to wearing the chador or similar garment in dark colours plus hijab/niqab, also in dark colours. The burqa is much more in evidence too.

I also perceive an increase in teenage girls wearing dark, conservative dress.

The men often wear traditional dress to go to mosque but otherwise in western clothing.

One of our local secondaries is pretty much all Muslim now.

That's an interesting question PECS. I'd be interested to see any data on that too, if available.

My eight year old granddaughter wears fishnet tights under ragged denim shorts and an off the shoulder black top..

Do people think there is a correlation between an increase in traditional Muslim clothes for women and the rise in Islamaphobia/ anti Islamic press etc? I have not looked at any facts or figures so do not know the answer.

I thought it had two colours, both black, but it seems one is dark navy.
Gruesome to put this on small children.
Of course, children might want to be like their Mummy.

Sometimes when I am walking around shops in the UK I wish there was a dress code here. There are some things I really don't want to see when I'm buying my veg. It would have to be for both sexes though.
I do think some of the Muslim girls I see in their headscarves look really atractive and if they are wearing it by choice I have no objection. There are small communities where young girls wear the hijab and I suppose if you come from a place where this was normal to the UK it will take time to adjust. It has taken a long time for women in this country to acheive equality and all we can hope is that the concept will develop in future generations of all women.

Why should Muslim girls/ladies change their dress because they are in the uk. They’re not damaging anyone else by what they wear - good point. But worth remembering that if we go to Muslim countries then, as women, we have to adapt our dress. And the same in some other settings.

Is the principle pf women's freedom worth upholding? Or are we happy to see this symbol of subjugation? I think it is very difficult to decide whether tolerance of difference overrides the importance of equality for all people - women, girls in particular.

I'm wondering what sort of stance France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc. would take on one of their major retailers supplying the hijab for youngsters. The idea of putting very little girls in a piece of headgear that has loaded connotations is quite depressing in my opinion. It's slightly reminiscent of when I was a young Catholic child of being told that girls and women had to cover our heads in church x a 100. That of course has been done away with now. Nevertheless all part of the patriarchy It's also been suggested on this thread that sometimes parents cover their young girls heads at an early age so they are used to it by puberty, which implies they are anticipating possible heavy handed coercion at such a time. Incidentally there are plenty of Muslim women who are not happy about this.

I don't really have any views on this because I suspect an awful lot of traditions, religious or otherwise, are becoming fashion statements

^
THIS

I grew up in Muslim countries and played with Arab children. I don't remember seeing any young girls wearing head coverings of any kind. The chador was worn after puberty.

I don't really have any views on this because I suspect an awful lot of traditions, religious or otherwise, are becoming fashion statements.

I'm another one who'd better stay quiet about this post!

Oh stop I have friends who won’t allow their daughters to wear bikinis or crop tops (underwear), schools encourage the use of shorts underneath skirts and dresses for girls doing cartwheels/handstands.

By the way I do think M&S are being ridiculous and I’m not sure it will sell that well anyway esp for the young girls

You do realise that there is no such thing as traditional English dress.

Why should Muslim girls/ladies change their dress because they are in the uk. They’re not damaging anyone else by what they wear

Yes, I agree Maddyone, I think putting a hijab on a young girl is tantamount to saying she is a dangerous sexual being, so she must be covered up.