Are pensioners perceived differently now?

PECS Mon 07-Jan-19 17:58:33. You and I have much in common on this subject but differ in some ways. I appreciate that you are polite about our differences and don't need to be unpleasant about them. Not everyone is as reasonable.

I firmly believe that young people today have a lot of advantages we didn't have and that we had advantages they don't have. I don't see a need to 'take sides' I think we can all point out different aspects. However I will not accept that young people don't have opportunities. We have the lowest unemployment figures for many years, councils do have a legal duty to house those made homeless through no fault of their own. I see lots of news items about those trying to help street sleepers. Yes, I know it doesn't always work but lots of people are trying. Today there is much more welfare than when I was young, companies pay people when they are ill, holiday entitlement is much greater and of course maternity benefits exist now. So it is not all bad. Oh and that old chestnut about the gig economy, well it just depends which bit you read, not just the headlines. I have no personal experience but I read that 75% of those in this type of work choose to do so because it suits their lifestyle, e.g. students. Of course there are some who don't like it but the assumption that they are all being taken advantage of is wrong. We need to look at all this in a balanced way.

I'm glad that young people don't have to live in a bedsit like mine these days. I'm glad that I was able to prepare my children for adult life in a way no one prepared me.

I glad we have human rights laws, employment protection, maternity pay, help with paying for nurseries.

I'm sad for those who are in financial difficulty

I'm sad for those who have no emotional support because I know what that was like.

I'm sad for the homeless and wish there was a solution despite so many trying to find one.

I'm sad for the alcoholics and drug users, I don't understand their lives because I have never been offered drugs and don't like the feeling I get if I drink too much. I have compassion for them but don't understand.

Individual...small group....crowd...demonstration....movement...political party.
Organisations like Avaaz and 38° are making quite a noise and achieving change.
Don't say that as an individual you don't count and can't achieve change.

We just should not be silent! Silence gives those with power room to do as they please.

PECS that’s so true, we as individuals can only do so much.

Depends not sure other than being forced to fight in a war what my grandparents did so not sure they had an active choice ..CND was my parents generation, 1968 and on to Greenham I was a student/young person protester and have continued as an active campaigner (letters/boycott/protest etc) all my life. My DDs and some of their contemporaries are also 'politically' active. Not the same as fighting a war I appreciate that..but we do not want that do we?

people talk about issues but don’t act or make personal sacrifices

I know lots of people, young old and those in between, who talk about, take action and make sacrifices for the good of others and to redress wrongs.

There is much compassion in the world that I see everday. Some small actions some big but all caring for others. Please don’t dismiss all this goodness.

My grandparents generation stood up and were counted for what they believed to be right (or wrong)

My parents and mine, not so much.

People talk about issues but don't act or make personal sacrifices to redress wrongs or effect change.

But, unlike the Thatcher statement, society is made up of individuals who, in a civilised society, do have responsibility to other members of that society.
I have tried to live up to that responsibility as a parent, as an individual and as an enfranchised citizen.
That's why I object to bring lumped in with the many pensioners who really are smug, selfish and verging on gloating.

It happened slowly but certainly and although we may not have voted for it we certainly haven't been strong enough in opposing it.
Exactly this!
When my kids and grandkids ask why we didn't do more to help the environment or halt inequality, I won't have an answer for them!

As an individual I could make excuses: I was busy making ends meet, I made some ethical choices yada yada yada....
.... its not enough

I don't think any of this is really to do with what personal benefits individuals have or have not had over the years but how we moved from a society that believed in the greater good and support for the weakest, to a society where the aquisition of wealth and the cult of the individual became the norm. It happened slowly but certainly and although we may not have voted for it we certainly haven't been strong enough in opposing it.(and I include myself in this). As far as homelessness and housing goes it isn't that they are still with us (and may always be to some extent) but that we seem to have lost the will and intent to improve things. We seem happy to accept that private landlords can raise rents when they like and price a family out of their home and that local councils no longer have responsibility to house anyone. At the same time we allow people on zero hours contracts to be called employed although they may only be paid for a few hours work and we saddle young graduates with student loans they may never repay. It's not a legacy we should be proud of.

Pensioners do not form a homogeneous group!
I for one am happy that I took advantage of the educational opportunities offered in the 60's, worked hard and paid the 15% rates on a mortgage in the 70's and paid substantial amounts of my salary towards my pension. So yes I am reasonably comfortable now. I take nothing for granted.
The money I inherited from my parents has all been passed on to my ACs. As far as I could manage it my pension funds and savings were ethically invested. I never took advantage of the right to buy scheme and I voted Remain in 2016.
Please do not include me in the cohort of the stereotypical pensioners.
My conscience is clear.

But we were not the older generation in the 70s! But I do agree it is harder for those ,who have not had to live without certain modern benefits, to fully appreciate how hard won they are and what life was like for many before they were universal.

The reason why the situation has developed is not helped by the likes of Vince Cable supporting the idea that the 65 plus contingent has selfishly robbed the youth of prospects. This is a man who has accrued homes at the expense of the taxpayer, has accrued pensions more beneficial and favourable than any others could have accrued. THE longer term result of this sort of propaganda wiil be that pensioners become less benevolent, realising that they actually earned their entitlement rather than relying on the hard work of others.
When you have earned something you appreciate and look after it, but whenit is bestowed you take it for granted.

The truth is that the generation born at the turn of the last century did a hell of a lot to make the next generations lived better.... but the generations that followed benefited from the upwards spiral set in motion by their parents and grandparents but at some point stopped caring about the legacies THEY would leave for the future generations (outside of maybe their immediate families in some cases)

GrannyGravy I think we do not have to blame forebears as the decisions people, alive now, contributed to through our democratic process has had consequences and will do into the future. We cannot turn back the clock but we can use the past to inform the future.... and we have chances to change approaches/values and attitudes.

I do not blame my forebears for their voting/attitudes/behaviour.

By the same token do you also not attribute any good things we have to prior generations? Sanitation? Peace? Rights? Engineering? Medicine?

You can't seriously think that the lives of the young aren't directly influenced by the choices of their predecessors?

with you there mcem

I do not blame my forebears for their voting/attitudes/behaviour.
I am only going to repeat what has previously been posted, in as much as each generation has different hurdles to overcome.
Each generation has different opportunities.

I don't think there is the abundance if entry level tech jobs up for grabs that you seem to imagine.

I know people in tech and its not that lucrative even with a decent portfolio and experience, most have several feathers in their hat because income from their digital work isn't enough.

There are relatively few people who got rich doing tech jobs. My DH works in a field where he has to utilise/employ techy types from time to time (he is not directly in tech but in a field that uses it) and its very much a buyers market with tech workers scrambling for jobs. He regularly turns them down rather than the other way round

Surely we (you) have to admit that our generation has contributed to the formation of today's society, its ills and its benefits.
eg. Did you vote for a government that encouraged the sale of council housing but did not allow councils to spend the funds on replacement homes?
How did you feel about the statements that said "There is no such thing as society" or "Bring back Victorian values" ?
Were you pleased to discover that your family would benefit from the change in the rules on inheritance tax?
All of your opinions (and votes) went to forming the society in which we (and our younger generations) live and survive or struggle.
And since our generation has had more opportunities to vote and influence the way society has developed, our generation must look at our degrees of responsibility.
It's not all about how hard we worked or how high our mortgage rates were in the 70's.

Internet jobs are the way forward, coding is being taught in Primary Schools.
Tablets are provided in Senior Schools for class/homework.
Robotics are being used in manufacturing.

nonnie I have used freecycle type sites regularly for years to give & to receive, I shop & donate in charity shops. I helped to organise a Green Heart event to rise awareness about sustainability...it is not that may of us on here are not aware of being careful/frugal etc. etc. but that our experience and perspective on younger people and current opportunities etc. differs from yours.
There have always been folk who expect everything on a plate , to get through life with little hard work, takers rather than givers.

My view is that even those who work hard and are careful with their income face tougher times today than I did as a 20 something ..when I was married with a child and a mortgage.

When we rented it was a stop gap, enabling us to save money. Nowadays rents are equivalent or higher than mortgages and with little security of tenure .

There are bloggers, Utubers and various other internet based jobs which offer an extremely good income without ever having to leave their bedroom.

Seriously? Its as reliable a career path as doing the lottery!

Only a tiny tiny fraction of youtubers/bloggers make an income that fully supports them. They are the pop stars of yesteryear. Its not a viable "opportunity" for your average youth

The contrast in the rise between the 2 GG13
house prices have surged at the same time as young people’s incomes have faltered. Average house prices rose 152 per cent in the 20 years to 2015-16, while net family income for 25-34-year-olds only grew by 22 per cent
An interesting article if you want to know more.
www.ft.com/content/81343d9e-187b-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640

I think the opportunities are different now.

There are bloggers, Utubers and various other internet based jobs which offer an extremely good income without ever having to leave their bedroom.