Are pensioners perceived differently now?

I don't think you want to see my point of view notanan so I'm not going to continue this debate with you. It is not clear cut but if you are not interested in understanding that it is usually cheaper to repair than replace then there is no point in us batting it backwards and forwards.

PECS I do understand but can only speak of the area we lived when we married, not a hope of getting social housing without 5 years of marriage and 3 children in our city.

Careful nonnie you sounded a bit like Ebeneezer "are there no prisons , have they no workhouses?

"have they no windows?" The point notanan is sensibly making is that unless where you live is a fairly secure tenancy there is little incentive to invest in it. I have a friend who has a council house. However she has the that accommodation because her income is low. Every penny she earns in her minimum wage job is accounted for and there is precious little left for tins of paint, new curtains etc. She is frugal and happy to buy in charity shops. It seems that some do not really appreciate the hand to mouth existence of very decent people and seem to think they would make a better fist of it. Have a go I say!

It also wouldnt have been enjoyable if I hadn't been eeking a few more years out of something I have been able to keep/use for years due to having a secure home

notanan surely it is cheaper, and better for the environment, to buy a little paint or brackets etc than to buy new. Don't they have windows in rented flats?

The last thing I repaired was a tatty old shelving unit I had.

It took about 1/3 or 1/4 of a small tin of eggshell which I had stored from previous projects. A few sprays of sugar soap which I had from painting walls, I already had a small roller tray and small roller just needed some fresh roller sponges and a fresh brush. I put new legs on it and reinforced it with glue which I had. I also fixed a panel at the back.

No I do not think it would have been environmentally friendly to throw out:
a nearly full tin of paint,
a nearly full sugar soap,
a roller & roller tray,
an almost full glue
A screw driver
....because I bought it all to freshen just one book shelf and couldn't store it afterwards.

Nor would it have been cheaper than buying new shelves

Nonnie we rented privately but I had school friends who, when they married, were eligible for council property. My DHs parents (& he) had been rehoused into a London council flat when their private rental was demolished (1965)
The flats are now all privately owned.

& its also a labour of love. If you can make your house your home you WANT to do these things. And why put your heart into restoring pieces if you know your landlord can serve notice or up the rent and you might have to move to somewhere smaller or furnished?

Renting wasnt always as transient as it is at the moment.

This crosses over with the loneliness threads: transience = less community & less of a reuse/repair culture

notanan surely it is cheaper, and better for the environment, to buy a little paint or brackets etc than to buy new. Don't they have windows in rented flats?

Sorry, missing the point of your second paragraph please elaborate.

Are council houses still built to Parker Morris standards?
They are built into new developments of over X amt of units. Which means most are new built flats.

Same for repairing furniture etc. Its having some spare left over paint, some spare brackets, some mdf, the tools....

....not just the will and the skills.
If you are not reusing scraps of materials and instead buy new each time its not worth it other than for fun.

And you need a ventilated space to work if sanding/treating/varnishing

Are council houses still built to Parker Morris standards? They always had bigger rooms than we had in our first two houses which we bought!

Its not the sewing machine itself that takes space, what you need space for is collecting scraps, zips, buttons, fabric etc... so that when a project comes up you can reuse the scraps and offcuts you have collected rather than having to buy new materials just for that project!

Some of my friends were from the really poor end of town.. they had garden sheds.

A young couple or young family these days with a property big enough for a garden shed is doing VERY well for themselves.

It didn't used to be a luxury. It used to be pretty ordinary. Which was why it was EASIER to mend things and collect spares and skills.

How do you do that in those awful newer build flats with barely room to swing a cat?

PECS where I was living when we got married council housing was most certainly not obtainable.

notanan a few needles and threads don't take up much space, neither does a tube of superglue. I bought my sewing machine to share with DiL because I could get the material for curtains and the machine for about the same price as buying ready made curtains. Actually a sewing machine doesn't take up much space either. A few cooking pans can usually be accommodated. I do know, I shared a bedsit with a friend before I got married and we used to take our family on holiday in a small touring caravan. There are ways to live in small spaces if you really try.

We give furniture we no longer need to one of the charities which sell it. Anyone can buy pretty good furniture there and Freegle gives it away. A bit off thread but why will people take away your unwanted bed but not the mattress? Do they expect a new mattress when they stay in a hotel? Always puzzled me.

If young renters were able to make their houses (or flats) their homes, and had some security, they would be much more inclined to mend and repair and build up supplies and skills.

I sew. It takes space to have the bits and bobs that may be needed as and when.

When people have to move every 6/12 months they can't collect those kinds of supplies.

Same for furniture, if you accommodation is temporary then so must your furniture be. I have heavy older repairable solid furniture because I don't rent I also am lucky enough to have space to do repairs, and space to store tools and supplies. Again because I never have to move to suit other peoples timetables so I can build up supplies. If you dont have that space and security then buying all the tools and supplies for just one repair isn't worth it

Collapsible dismantlable easily moved furniture is much harder to repair, once chipboard cracks or cheap metal bends its done for. And going from furnished to unfurnished to furnished doesn't lend itself to collecting lasting sturdy pieces

When I left school in 1969 I could expect a 'job for life' because of my level of education and my friends who had left 2 years earlier to go into apprenticeships or training jobs were also looking at a rosy future of stability. All of us expected to get work..some better paid than others but all on reasonably 'living wages'. Council housing was still a possibility and rentals were accessible. In 1971 DH and I rented a 3 bed terrace in Sth London for £5 per week. That was a 1/3 of DHs monthly wage. A 2 bed flat here has a rental of £1500 pm locally (45 mins out of London) which would require an income of over £54k. No comparison.

A couple of comments based on what I have just read.

Environment I suspect that the young do more harm to the environment than the pensioners. I have long felt that when the government tries to persuade us to be more environmentally friendly they should talk about how we can save ourselves money rather than saving the planet. I think it would be more effective because an awful lot of people only think about themselves.

I recently heard of a new approach suggesting we Repair, Reuse and Recycle. I am sure I am not alone in repairing clothes and other things. DH has just repaired several Christmas decorations before we put them away. I recently made new covers for the dining chair cushions from a pair of curtains and they look great. DS has several pieces of furniture we no longer need and I have a lovely low rocking chair in my study which the previous owner left in DS's house when she moved. DS has lots of clothes from his older brother. However most of the young people I worked with couldn't sew, cook or do anything with things that no longer worked or were damaged. They simply threw them out and bought new.

Young people my own family are not, imo, typical. They don't like wasting money at all. They buy food with yellow stickers and freeze it, they cook from scratch and accept hand me downs. We had to sign as guarantors when one bought his first house when he was very young and he took in lodgers to help pay his mortgage. He knew we were willing to help if necessary but didn't ask once. So many of their friends buy their coffees and lunches when at work and get takeaways. It will be DiLs birthday next week and when asked what she wanted to do and where to eat she asked for fish and chips because it would be a treat. They have good jobs and a lovely home but still don't waste money.

Well trisher once again you know different sorts of people to me. I know of people who would not consider themselves to have 'least' but who quietly give generously of both their time and money. Yes, it is the sort of thing I discovered by accident in all except one case. Perhaps you 'notice' the ones who talk about it? But then I don't tend to judge people very much unless their weaknesses/failings are brought to my attention. I certainly don't decide that anyone has a 'narrow circle of friends' because I couldn't possibly know. There is a minority of posters on here who seem to enjoy 'interpreting' what others say. I suspect they do so because of the way their own minds work rather than what the poster actually says. C'est la vie.

My youth didn't give me any experience of what it is like to be young today.

As for growing up in a difficult world then many of us, born in the post war generation, were able to make a life and not being spoilt we were hardy enough to cope

Still a different world.

Things ARE different now one way or another.

People who say "I was young once so I know all about it" are usually the most out of touch.

There is a scene in Adulthood which demonstrates this perfectly

I think that how your children behave when they are adult depends how you brought them up.
If they were spoilt to death and obviously some were according to GN, then the parents are to blame.

As for growing up in a difficult world then many of us, born in the post war generation, were able to make a life and not being spoilt we were hardy enough to cope

newgran2019 what a load of twiddle. I stated a fact, not an opinion.

When you do things that affect other people you make it their business. And no amount of telling them otherwise will change that.

So do what you want, but don't expect the people it affects to not notice or pipe up.

And I still think people should 'mind their own business' about how other people, young or old, spend their own money ie the money they have earned. So long as people are not engaging in illegal activities it is up to them, and them alone, how they choose to spend their money. If people wish to go on a cruise, buy a new car, give all their money to charity, give it to their children, or grandchildren, or do anything else that is legal, then it's up to them, and no one else. As long as it's legal, they can choose to do it.

I think perhaps there is a wider spectrum of lifestyles now. When I was young I do not know of anyone who had a second car. People buying houses sometimes bought a large enough house to have a spare room but that was unusual. In my experience children were two to a room. Now it seems there is a panic when another baby comes along to move to a bigger property, whether buying or renting. I know this varies according to area and house price, just generalising. Although my mum was a SAHM, we took in lodgers who got breakfast, packed lunch and evening meal - hardly “Not working”. We all slept in one room to make room for the lodgers, in order for the mortgage to be paid. There is a different level of what is considered “essential” now. That is life, things change. I am not a grandparent, but as I am in my 60s I am perceived to be available time wise by relatives and friends with young children although I still work part time from home. I cannot remember ever making such assumptions as a parent so in that way I think that our generation is asked for more than previous ones. Washerwoman please stay. You expressed yourself clearly and fairly.