Are pensioners perceived differently now?

I can remember my mum saying exactly the same thing about our generation Barmeyoldbat. Nothing changes.

In answer to the thread title, yes I think pensioners are perceived differently now, certainly compared to just a couple of decades ago.

In the past pensioners were seen as in need of extra money for fuel (can't afford the second bar on the electric fire, etc), eating meagre rations and lonely, in need of lunch clubs; woe betide any politician who neglected pensioners.

The past perception was probably well deserved. I remember seeing shabbily-dressed older people with inadequate winter clothing and 'looking poor', but not for the past 20 years or so.

Now it's the lowly-paid of the younger generations who are perceived as being in need of help.

and I for one am not unwilling to help....but I won’t ‘carry’ either of my kids

This is SO so so important.
I have peers who are certainly "carried" and they never grow up!
E.g. taking out bigger mortgages than they can manage and then parents step in...
Getting into debt over and over because parents step in...
Applying for jobs BEFORE working out childcare because parents step in...

I honestly dont know how they will manage/cope when their parents get too old to cope or have to spend their savings on care. They have never learnt to make responsible decisions.

However I also have peers who were given a SINGLE leg up (eg their first deposit) and then left to either make the most of it or waste it and learn from it. And they are doing very well and are "proper" grown ups

They are your typical "if you didn't spend your money on smart phones you could buy a bigger house" types that give their generation a bad name.

I couldnt do my job without a smartphone and it certainly did not cost as much as a house ?

No I don’t believe we’re seen as different. We are ( generally) better off financially. I’m texting this while sitting in Debenhams bistro having a second breakfast and people watching (and listening)!! All women...at least 15 people all chattering, eating, having been shopping. They are of course moaning about hubbies...their kids...grandchildren . But also talking about cruises...glamping...new cars... and what they’ve just bought!! I know there are poor pensioners out there( I border on it myself sometimes) but we are a luckier bunch than our mothers or indeed grandmothers. My daughter is grateful for any help I can give her with kids... she works a full time job AND a consultancy job which takes her away from home. We do have more disposable income than previous generations and I for one am not unwilling to help....but I won’t ‘carry’ either of my kids. They both stand on own two feet and know my situation....just state pension + v. Small works pension and a little of my hubbies pension. I’m not rich but I’m not poor. After all I’m in Debenhams eating so I can’t be!

When I was a child plenty of my friends went to grandparents houses after school for their dinners while their parents worked on. Maybe because my school had some poorer areas in its catchment so even back then both parents had to work?

I had offers of financial support when DH and I were starting out but they came with HUGE caveats so we mostly declined (e.g. money to do things they thought we should do, rather than money towards things WE thought we needed). We struggled a lot despite them being quite well off (without EXPECTING anything from them) and the things they did offer money towards were not things that in our opinion would have helped us, and in some cases the things they wanted us to do would have made us worse off (e.g. offering to buy us a second car when we could barely afford the finance and running of our 1 car. Had the money been offered without the caveat of it being for a second car (because they didnt like us not being able to drive everyone when they visited because our 1 car was full with the 4 of us) we would have chosen to clear the finance on the car we had to make our day to day expenses more manageable. But that wasn't on the table. And their money their choice, but we could not afford to run ANOTHER car whilst still paying off the first so it was a gracious no thank you. Which didn't go down well.

My parents wedding was paid in full by her family. (Middle class not "rich" just average)

Both my parents had support from family when starting their careers.

Both my parents inherited but have decided to leave their money in trust to the GCs skipping us. They think we're bad with money because they never had to be frugal and don't understand why we cant afford the luxuries that they see as normal. We are actually very good with money, we just started with less than they did and earn less than they did so of course there are things we cant have - they interpret that as us failing as adults and apparently don't trust us to inherit. The irony being that they could only afford those things BECAUSE they had lots of support and inheritance. Had they had to be self sufficient like us I doubt they would have managed half as well.
Fine. Their money their choice..

I totally agree with barmyoldbat. I'm so glad to hear others think like me. We are blamed for so much. My very young sister actually said its our generations fault that the sewage system in Belfast is so bad because we didn't pay enough rates! Most young folk I know wont consider buying a house without 2 bathrooms which is nice but really we started with much less and did without a lot to pay our mortgage. We didnt think it was our right to have a mortgage, foriegn holidays, expensive gadgets; designer handbags, stag holidays, beauty treatments, regular meals out, bought lunches (homemade sandwich)
The press do stir it up. Its not our fault everything is so bad in the country. We paid our taxes and saved and didn't squander and we only have what we are entitled to. (actually we are not get getting the nhs we paid for). We aren't spending their inheritance. So maddening.
No one gives you a seat now or any of the courtesies we gave our elders. And I know I am generalising.
Paddyann I too think you were a bit harsh. If children accept help and waste money I would be annoyed too especially if it was causing my child problems.

It always amazes me that the people who raised the generation they are moaning about take absolutely no responsibility for the way they turned out. And actually none of my DSs are like that, they know what is valuable and what isn't and that it's nothing to do with money or cost.

Yes houses were cheaper when we got married but wages were lower and the mortgage interest rate was high. Our first mortgage interest was 15% and when I stopped work to have a baby DH had to do a second job to cover the payments.

This generation is all about wanting everything....now. They want a family but still want me time, they want a home but still want to carryon their lifestyle of holidays and going out whilst trying to save. The everything in the home has to be new. They expect family to fall in with their needs and don't really consider the needs of others. They then have the cheek to blame the older generation who have struggled and saved. We have a very selfish lot of people around.

I remember my Mum saying that her SIL used to drop the 2 children off with their nan while she went to work. Never gave her any money, both children were fussy eaters so might take 1 bite out of their food then refuse to eat it.

namsnanny I agree, I used to respect older people and would always give them preference whrn passing in the street. However, these days young people seem to think I will move out of the way for them and I have now decided I won't! A few days ago a child of about 8 bumped into me and didn't apologise, the woman with him gave me a nasty look! Same on public transport, children and young people occupy seats and leave older people to stand. I still give way to people who look older or less able than me.

It is hard to compare because life is so different and it is irritating when the media pick on one area of life rather than looking at the bigger picture. For example housing. Most of us who have bought our own homes had to pay huge interest rates but these days mortgages are cheaper. Yes, houses are more expensive but that is surely because now they take both incomes into account. After all it is supply and demand. We lived very frugally to save for our first house, not sure so many do now. We only ate out on special occasions.

I heard recently how hard it is to get social housing, wasn't it always? Maybe it was different in other places but in the city we lived in we were told there was no point putting our names down for a council house until we had been married 5 years and had 3 children.

So many things are cheaper now, school uniforms; food; furniture (think Ikea). Women now earn the same as their male counterparts and are no longer the property of their husbands for tax purposes.

On the other hand we all tend to want what our peer group has: foreign holidays; meal out; expensive cars; designer clothes etc. I know not all but there is a lot of pressure on young people to conform.

Perhaps respect for others, whatever their age, should be encouraged and some empathy would go down well too. Less of the entitlement on all sides as well as giving up the expectation that 'they should ......' and instead thinking what 'I should....'.

I just wrote some examples of the above then deleted it because I didn't want to face the accusations of being unfeeling. I really am not but I think things have gone too far. Now we are told that insurance and fuel companies are going to have to stop penalising those who renew without checking whether they can get it cheaper. On the face of it that seems like a good idea but isn't it encouraging us all not to think? Isn't it going to encourage us to rely on the 'Nanny State'. Where will it end? Are we teaching young people that it will all be done for them?

If you ever look at Mumsnet, It is easy to see how older people are perceived, in my opinion. And it isn’t a positive perception.

Pensioners have it easy, bought houses when they were cheap, have good pensions, and so on. Yes, houses were cheaper obviously, but it’s relative to income. I worked two jobs so we could afford our first house and we did without lots of things to keep going.

Expectations are different now and I do think some people feel entitled to have financial and practical support from their parents. My parents and in laws very very rarely babysat our children. When we lived near to our children, we did babysit and I paid for outings, food etc. That isn’t practical now, due to distance, but we do have the grandchildren to stay and pay for them then.

I do think that there is resentment amongst the younger generation, particularly over housing. And I appreciate that things move on, but I think there is a different attitude to possessions these days and expectations that we probably didn’t have, about having gadgets, holidays and so on.

I think too, that many younger people’s lifestyle completely depends on their parents capacity for childcare and without it, they wouldn’t manage. I can observe a friend wearing herself out, looking after grandchildren overnight several times a week, whilst parents work. It seems to be expected in away it want years ago.

I think as basic living standards have improved and social media tries to sell a perfect life, younger people are trying to have it all. By using grandparents money and time, they can be richer and closer to the perceived perfect life. I think as use of social media matures people are starting to realise that life is not perfect! For example today I read abot recycling water bottles. Someone came on to say tap water is basically filthy. And I thought, how much do they spend buying water? How much damage to the environment making and discarding bottles? How much taxes on recycling or removing the waste bottles? And yet they have a go at older people having money!

I think as long as you have good health you are ok. I have recently developed a problem that means I cannot walk or stand for more than a few minutes without pain. This has changed all sorts of things. I am almost 68 & still work p/t, look after dgc twice a week after school and have a busy social life. However not being as mobile has created huge changes to how pther people view me..including DH! He is treating me as if I am almost senile! grrr!,

I also had a Grandmother who "sat" for pretty much her entire life after 70.

One of the differences I have observed in terms of how grandparents are perceived is that gps these days are expected to be supportive and available to their DCs.

I think I loved my GPs but in no way did I expect them to be other than distant emotionally.

There was also a sense that people weren't expected to be perfect but that they expected their children to be dutiful and respectful towards them nonetheless.

My GDad was an abusive bully and a wife beater, for example. It was acknowledged within the family but he was treated with kindness and respect even so.

I was brought up in the same vein - to be dutiful and selfless towards my family elders regardless.

harrigan The ageism on social media is appalling and I have never seen anything like it before.
The Guardian is one of the worst places for it. Any other ism is removed from their BTL comments but ageism seems to be almost encouraged.
People are seriously saying that we shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Namsnanny, I agree with what you say. We are financing the next generation but I am not sure they respect us.
I have been told that we f****d up the world, caused brexit and we would be dead soon and not have to suffer the consequences. Social media is an evil place at times. To some age equals ignorance.

My grandmother had 7 children and was left to bring them up alone so had no time at all for me . I only had one grandparents so lost out completely. On the other hand my children adored their one grandparent and she was blessed to have them as she was a widow . My mother was always willing to pay for things for DH and myself in the early days of marriage and I have followed her example. I am still happy to pay for anything like treats .
As an aside when I think of my grandmother all she did was sit: at 70 she looked like Queen Victoria. She lived with her two daughters who did all the work and she just grumbled. This Christmas ( me 4 years older ) I ran around and fed 8 of us for a week plus played countless games with the GC . Changed days indeed .

Well said Trisher - couldn't agree more !!

It often seems to me that the dream of work/life/family ...the idea of having it all has turned out to be doing it all for many young women.

However, you must remeber tht the tide turned in the 60s and 70s and many grandparents, females, worked and had careers. I worked while my children were growing up, as a divorced woman, single parent. I paid all the bills and kept a roof over our heads.

This generation of mothers may be working but there are many women in their 50s, 60s and 70s who did exactly the same without the parental perks and laws that now exist. I had no help whatsoever from my parents - because they couldn't afford to help. In their old age, I was there for them.

We should not make excuses for working parents. It is hard while the children are young, but it does get easier. Many grandparents who had no help or handouts can vouch for that.

I look after my grandchildren far more than my parents looked after mine. We had to cope.

It was hard but we just got on with it. Now many working parents seem to want martyr status for for doing what generations before them have done.

I think that about the Keyboard Warriors on Twitter that I see daily, its easy to hide behind a screen and an alias isn't it.

Have you read articles by famous women such as Diane Abbot and other MPs about the abusive tweets and comments they get every single day.

I think the press have stirred this up too, talking about Brexit and the older generation being responsible for the leave vote and not caring about the future, older people hanging on to jobs that younger people should have, how we had it easy, our pensions are all amazing and we all have money coming out of our ears etc etc. They really have no idea how some older folk struggle financially.

My MiL did childmind full time for our first child. She had just lost her own mother and almost begged us to let her. I paid her but it was a token payment as she didn’t want any money. My own mother wouldn’t lift a finger to help. She was of the opinion that she’d done her share of child rearing.

Fair enough. But it was MiL and FiL who came on holiday with us, were invited to Christmas dinners and school plays, etc. and who our children turned to when they fell out with us (think teenagers). And it was MiL who came to live with us when she was widowed and could no longer cope by herself.

Well my family must be different. I remember staying with my gran when I was little because mum was working. She took us to see "Singing in the Rain" one day during the school holidays. And they were always giving us pocket money. In fact my gran also saved change in a pottery pig for my children. I lived away but mum and dad visited and we went to stay with them. They took my DSs out for days and we went on holiday with them. They also took them shopping and bought them shoes and clothes. I look after my GCs a couple of days a week although it's picking up from school now. They also visited my mum when she was still alive and she also gave them pocket money. I don't think there is that much difference between how I grew up, except perhaps that I am more active than my grandparents were.
As for how pensioners are perceived how can you possibly have one idea about us? My mum was 95 and a pensioner like me but she was much more frail. There are pensioners who are just 60 and more active and some are still working. This idea that because you've collected your pension you are somehow the same as everyone who has a pension is just silly. We are not just one generation but many.

Does anyone think the relationship between the generations has deteriorated in recent times? How do and why do you think?

It's an interesting theory I think.

We tended to revere older people. Their longevity, wisdom, maybe, life experiences and perhaps frailty gave them a sort of senior status that was respected.

I was brought up to respect my elders - whether they deserved respect or not/ Those manners have long since gone I think.

I was appalled and sickened by the new wave of young people who described older people - people who may have taught them, fought in wars for their freedoms, worked to pay their taxes to keep British institutions functioning and who generally had a code of decent conduct and respect for others - described as "coffin dodgers" by young people who had no time for them at all.

In an online newspaper comments column I received the most dreadful abuse from young people once they realised I as in my 60s. They had no knowledge of my background, education level, degrees or career or the hardships I'd faced in my life, but I was written off as a nonentity who would soon be dead ("thank goodness - bring it on" was one comment) by young keyboard warriors who disagreed with me and hurled the most foul insults once they realised I was in my 60s.

I was shoc]ked and hurt. I count in this world until I am dead, and I hope I have left a legacy that will live on after me in the hearts and minds of those I affected and maybe helped in my time on earth.

To young people I was just 'past it' and that is extremely insulting given I probably have an intellect which far out does theirs and a history, resolve and fighting spirit which they might only dream of when they reach their 60s.

Does that sort of ignorance come under the 'lack of respect' banner? I firmly believe we earn respect but that seems to be a foreign notion to so many young people.