Avoiding politics

I am very much in favour of Citizen's Assemblies such as they use in Ireland and I would have thought this is just the sort of template a forum such as GN could use to help us have better, more knowledgeable conversations.

They could, where we cannot, chose a single subject, employ a proper chair for the discussion, select the "citizen's" who should be limited number and a cross section of members rather than citizens in this case. The are big enough to that they will attract the experts and interest groups needed to inform the members of the group. I don't think Ireland includes politicians.

Other members would not be excluded as obviously discussion threads could go along side what would be a longer process than a usual discussion, perhaps once a week or every couple of weeks for a specific number of "assemblies" on one topic. Voting by the members could also take place at the end which would no doubt lead to further discussion on threads outside the "assembly" thread.

Otherwise all that happens is opinions are swapped - often not based on fact and people get angry because their opinion is not agreed with. Gransnet - or GN & MN combined - could really facilitate and foster interest in political matters rather than just sit back and watch the crash. There was a huge amount of scepticism in Ireland but this method - Citizen's Assemblies - have worked very well. Perhaps GN could wake up the old and out of date political parties and encourage better debate and a way of increasing real knowledge.

The first topic in Ireland was "how we best respond to the challenges and opportunities of an ageing population". I imagine most of us would have an interest in that.

God will self is a proper bore off though isn’t he. Pompous idiot.

I started getting getting interested in politics in the era of Maggie T when she slashed through so much of what we thought was safe. Then I married a very politically aware man. To me, it is vital that we all keep an eye on what politicians are doing - we have a right wing media owned by very rich people (apart from The Guardian and the Mirror), who are following their own agendas (i.e. to make the rich richer). Yes, some people don't bother to vote as they feel powerless in their lives - hence a lot of the rage coming from those people when they feel that, at last, they had the opportunity to be heard (voting Leave) and now feel they are being ignored. We're being distracted by "bread and circuses" from what is really going on. Why don't we talk more about it on here - I guess people are trying to avoid the sort of arguments we've seen elsewhere - families, friendships and even former friendly neighbour relationships torn apart by the whole Referendum mess.

I too an passionately interested in politics. But I will not expose myself to the vitriol that is often poured by posters, (particularly on Brexit threads), with equally passionate views on the opposite side. Left or right leaning, it doesn't matter. I often go over to the other side (mumsnet) and watch with horror as posters are destroyed by post after post. On Brexit, there is only one view to have on mumsnet so it takes a very brave person to oppose that.

I also get angry when a posters makes sweeping statements about people who voted in a certain way as though every single voter is the same. Within any section of voters there will be old and young, clever or stupid, good or bad, those that considered every angle and those who make up their mind on the day. That's what you get when the polling station opens. To say that all remainers are left leaning loonies or all Brexiteers are old and thick shows contempt for fellow human beings.

What has made the past three years seem to divide our population down the middle is social media. Its very easy to state your views, sometimes endlessly, when you have no idea of your target. In real life, we know that our friends and family and the bloke down the pub have differing views but we negotiate around it. By avoiding tricky subjects or accepting that their opposing view is their opinion and only one aspect of them, and we carry on from there. But on forums such as this, the shared background is missing and the nuances and body language cant be seen. This seems to give some posters a free rein to say some dreadful things.

So, Im sure many many gransnetters have an interest in politics but choose not to display those views for fear of a skip loads of poo falling down on them.

I agree that we should all be interested in politics but the voting figures demonstrate that we are not. Remember all it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

This just about sums it up:

www.facebook.com/TheOnlyFloridaMan/videos/724690871257879/UzpfSTY3NzkyNjczNDoxMDE1NTc5MjQ3NTc2NjczNQ/

Religion and politics can bring out the worst in people and cause rows.

I do believe everyone should vote though - or shut up with their complaints

When I worked with Electoral Services, I was shocked at people who weren't bothered about registering (legal requirement), never mind voting. Sadly, more likely to be younger people.
Also, when self registration came in, the families with children away at uni just said they'd pass message on. Given you had to have NI number to register, in their shoes I'd have registered them myself. Going to uni is a year older - not more organised.

Democracy is taken for granted

GA no surprise, your name says it all. Just like you I can have political discussions with people who have a different view to me but I do pull away when they sneer or treat my opinion as invalid.

On GN it is very frustrating when I challenge a 'fact' and the poster simply stops posting on that thread but is active elsewhere. When this happens I tend to think the poster is lacking in knowledge of the subject. I get things wrong sometimes but I always apologise, it doesn't hurt!

I am continually vowing to myself that I will keep off the politics threads. However, then I see a piece of misinformation, out of date information, or deliberate misrepresentation - and off I go again.

My reasoning for doing this is not that I aim to convert the misguided poster, but rather to present the other side of the point at issue, so that others reading the thread can see the alternative 'facts', or opinions and make up their own minds which to believe.

toscalily I think that comments like saying a perfectly reasonable statement is 'patronising' is the sort of thing which puts some people off posting. It is not nice to feel attacked when you don't deserve it.

Urmston I do understand that you and varian have different views on Brexit and are both passionate (intransigent?) in your opinions but surely if someone can provide a link to prove their point it is better than just a statement which is not backed up? I have asked people to send me a link to back up what they have said e.g. laws being made by unelected bureaucrats but they fail to do so. Surely it would be better if they did?

You can add the BBC to your list of leave media.

Disillusionment seems to colour the views of many - they begin to feel that they can't make any difference and that 'they are all the same'. I have heard this from several friends and acquaintances.
I don't feel that way, and take a great deal of interest in what is going on, reading newspapers and periodicals to attempt to keep informed, but currently if I see one more windblown political correspondent pontificating outside the Houses of Parliament I really feel that apoplexy will result. I just cannot take any more and have consequently given up Brexit for Lent. I feel strange kind of peace.

Most people I know are interested in the country's politics. I think though, as someone else commented, it's not something that can be discussed in a few lines in a forum, which is probably why it's not discussed much here. Particularly as things are currently so complicated. However, I do think people are becoming disillusioned and losing faith with our politicians. I find myself that I have discussed/argued so much about BREXIT over the past many many months, that I'm left feeling I've said it all and I've nothing new to say.

I heard Will Self say a couple of years ago ‘We have a political class unfit for purpose’. And we seem to have a large section of the population who are uninformed, and seem unable to argue: If someone takes a different point of view, instead of presenting their own case, they shower abuse. I would add it is opting out of human responsibility not to engage politically: it is about how to protect and share precious resources, especially for generations to come.

Dh and I have always voted, my dd does and if there is another election my gd will be able to vote this time.
But and it’s a big BUT I am so disappointed with Parliament at the moment it’s like watching cat and dogs fighting,
I am asking myself do I want to vote.

we seem to need politics ,its just that nobody agrees on what needs to be done. theres the problem of the type of people who go into politics-theres a quote somewhere that if people who show an interest in politics then they should be banned from going into it! Theres the problem of the hubris syndrome that takes hold of some politicians-look at history.
Putting the needs of the vulnerable first then take it from there,unfortunately, power ,control and greed and serving the rich seems to win the day every time.I don't think we have evolved enough as a species to do the job properly.
Some figures in history stand up for what needs to be done but every time they are crucified or murdered...…….
I despair about politics,I wish things weren't the way they are.

M0nica Callistemon toscalily Alima and Urmstongran said it all for me.

I am very interested in politics - however - I will not discuss my views online to avoid arguments. I strongly believe that we should all vote as many struggled in the past to get us that right

If people tell me they are not interested in politics, I answer, "but politics is interested in you!" Every aspect of our daily lives from what we pay for goods, what we receive in income or benefits, what schools are available to our children and grandchildren etc. etc. is a result of a political decision, centrally or locally. This why I am an activist,going on demos, leafletting for local candidates, attending party meetings and social events, raising money for the party I support.

The reason that many people avoid posting is that the line-up on the political threads is the same as it is in Westminster - two rows of benches facing each other, each of them full of protagonists for one of two diametrically opposing views, neither of them ready to concede that anything that the "other side" approves of is worth tuppence. I remember the response on here when the Government passed one measure that had previously been part of the opposition plan. It wasn't "They've got it right at last! The country needs that." It was, "How dare they steal that! That is ours." And that is the attitude in the other direction, too.

Perhaps we should burn down the Houses of Parliament and rebuild with a semicircle of seats containing people with graduated views who would actually put effort into working together instead of trying to annihilate one another for the good of a narrow party and their own advancement to power.

I don't know whether to laugh or scream, reading some of the responses one here. Am I on a different Gransnet site from some of the posters? What I'm reading here just doesn't match what I see on the political threads!

It's just that some of the most stinging, critical replies to the OP on this thread seem to be from posters who are amongst the most vociferous on the politics forum, and whose posts regularly include the very things that they are criticising here.

Is it just me?

Anyway, in answer to the OP, I imagine that as other posters above have said, it's not necessarily lack of interest in politics that stops a lot of Gransnetters from posting on the politics forum, but rather a fear of being verbally attacked (or whatever the written equivalent is), as regularly happens, with people on both sides of an argument being equally guilty of this.

That said, I've known a lot of people over the years who say they have no interest whatsoever in politics, though many of them had very strong views on issues that rather belied the claim!

Agree with grannyqueenie. The Silent majority voted for Brexit. They made their own minds up without having to debate the issues with strangers. Then they get on with the business of living. There is more to life than Politics!

They don’t wish to discuss it with you Varian. Sorry.

Exactly grannyqueenie.

I’m interested in politics, why wouldn’t I be? However I have absolutely no interest in either being patronised or shouted down by those who are perhaps more confident in a debate than I am. Just because many of us don’t express a view on here doesn’t mean we don’t have our own opinions.

I am very political, but I’m not aligned to any one party. A dear friend and colleague is politically poles apart from me, but I have a huge respect for him and I understand that he holds the views he does because his world view has been shaped very differently from mine. He has a very close relationship with our local MP and is helping me to table a question to be asked in the HoC. I actually canvas for our MP’s opponent (an independent), but my friend has respect for my views. Politically I am a thinking Christian, lefty, green remainder. I oppose the arms trade, am not a fan of capitalism, support Extinction Rebellion and welcome immigrants (including into my home). My close friends are of many political persuasions, but somehow we rub along in spite of our differences. The only time I get cross is when people I know maintain belief in myths peddled by certain news sources in spite of actual contradictory evidence.

Am very interested in politics, but as many posters say, why go round and round the mulberry bush on Brexit threads, there’s nothing new to say.Hopefully, when we have left the EU, those threads will go back to the usual politics of the day (although that can get very boring too.)
There will be many people on here who are very interested in politics but don’t fancy tangling with those who browbeat
And posture and virtue signal on GN threads.